Thread: Is this Americas future?

Originally Posted by Bruno

. There is nothing Obama, or any other president can do about it. The only thing he can do is steer the US economy as a whole, with tax plans, incentives and channeling foreign trade.

I wish more people understood that!!!!!
Thanks,
Photoguy67

Originally Posted by leadduck

"If somebody comes into your home on your soil with the intent to do harm to you or yours, do you do everything in the realm of possibilities to protect your family or do you worry about the law????"

I like this arguement. So, if you thought your next door neighbor was in cahoots with bad guys, but then found out he wasn't, but then thought he was collecting weapons to use against you, would you be justified in invading his house and butchering his family? And then when you found out he didn't have any weapons, would you be aquitted of all charges by raising the defense, "Well gee, we're better off without him"? Not so simple after all, I guess.

So what if you found out he was systematically murdering his family? Would you just turn away since he is not hurting you?

Originally Posted by leadduck

"If somebody comes into your home on your soil with the intent to do harm to you or yours, do you do everything in the realm of possibilities to protect your family or do you worry about the law????"

I like this arguement. So, if you thought your next door neighbor was in cahoots with bad guys, but then found out he wasn't, but then thought he was collecting weapons to use against you, would you be justified in invading his house and butchering his family? And then when you found out he didn't have any weapons, would you be aquitted of all charges by raising the defense, "Well gee, we're better off without him"? Not so simple after all, I guess.

HUH ????? Wow now that changed ....

Originally Posted by Bruno

One of the most annoying things about US politics is that everything is either black or white, and the public has no idea how to deal with someone who acknowledges the color 'grey'. ?

Isn't this comment a little black and white? Live here a little before you pop off like that. Or at least stretch your memory back 8 years. Clinton was Mr. Nuance. Bush Sr. had very subtle policies.

And Obama really should spend a little more time in office than one day before unwinding the security structure that has worked since 9/11. If he lives it and thinks he wants to give the terrorists free run after studying the situation for a couple years, go for it. But doing that on day 1 isn't principle, it's politics and playing for the camera.

We'll see what he does. His appointments have been pretty good on first blush. His first day was a disgrace.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Ah ok. I didn't know that.

To a certain extent he is right though. .

this was the snotty elitist comment that could have cost Obama the election if it had been played well. Even he won't endorse it - it was his one f-up. but you think he's right even though he doesn't.

Just out of curiosity, in your nuanced view of America, is it possible for Obama to err?

Originally Posted by Photoguy67

So what if you found out he was systematically murdering his family? Would you just turn away since he is not hurting you?

Interesting concept and question, Thank you for bringing it up Photoguy

As most herd animals do exactly that, as in, a herd of sheep, will turn right back to grazing, as soon as a wolf makes a kill, because they know that they are safe for the time being....

A very interesting point was brought up today while discussing this....

Why hasn't the "World" the do gooders, wanna change the world, come gimme a hug, and sing Kumbaya part that is, stopped the Genocide and ritual killing in Africa?????
Hmmmmmmm maybe they are waiting on ??????
Let me guess, just a hunch,
















The US Military??????

Naw couldn't be that, were just waiting for Bono, Madonna, Brad, Angelina, and the other's to go stop that stuff...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

If somebody comes into your home on your soil with the intent to do harm to you or yours, do you do everything in the realm of possibilities to protect your family or do you worry about the law????

Makes it real simple doesn't it ???

Not really.

I would do everything I can to protect my family. I don't have guns, but I would not ponder the legality of hitting someone in the back of the head with a boken and kicking them off the stairs before doing so.

I don't think anyone would.

But that is not really the situation we are talking about.
That would be me, breaking into other people's homes and beating them up if I have just an idea that he might be a threat, or if he has the same name as someone who is trying to harm me, or if he is a very good friend of someone who might.

Someone actually attacking the US, or conspiring to do so, is a terrorist. He should be dealt with.
But only if he has actually done something wrong. And that is what the court of law is for.
Just 'disappearing' the suspects without a trial... that is what the KGB used to do in the cold war. They were the bad guys.

If someone is guilty, then it should be no problem at all to give him a fair trial. Because guilt can only be established by court of law. And if there is enough evidence, he will be dealt with.
And if there is no evidence... then he shouldn't be in prison.

Originally Posted by loueedacat

this was the snotty elitist comment that could have cost Obama the election if it had been played well. Even he won't endorse it - it was his one f-up. but you think he's right even though he doesn't.

Just out of curiosity, in your nuanced view of America, is it possible for Obama to err?

You shouldn't have cut the context of my reply away.
I don't think, nor did I imply, that small town people are not worthy of his time, that gun ownership is for freaks, nor that being very religious is a defect.

The portion that I think he was right about was what you cut away from my reply. Local communities have been lied to by successive administrations. It is one of the problems with having to go on a campaign trail to raise votes. Politicians have to make promises wherever they give a speech. Or he will lose votes.

I think his remark about gun ownership and religion was off the mark, and I am very surprised that the republican party didn't beat him over the head with it. Because this was most definitely a f*** up.
Perhaps that quote was used in a different context, but it was a very dangerous thing that could have cost him the election.

Sure he can err. But let me tell you how.
What he does inside America is something I don't care about. I may have an opinion about it, but I don't really care because it doesn't affect me. For example: I have an opinion about socialized health care, but I don't care about if he implements it or not, because it doesn't affect me.

The only thing I care about is what he does abroad. From my point of view, Bush was an idiot who had a very bad influence on international politics. No matter what I think of his internal policies, I only care about what he did abroad.

Otoh take Clinton. He did a lot to improve foreign relationships and international politics. Clinton is a very popular person in Europe, and regarded as an excellent leader. I understood from several people here that he was not such a good president for the Americans, but that is invisible to us. Our judgement is only colored by what he did abroad because that is all we feel and see.

So Obama... I make no exaggerations if I say that in Europe, Obama is at this moment regarded as highly as would the second coming of Christ. We see someone who is intelligent, well-spoken, charismatic, and with the goal to undo the crap that was caused by Bush.
The fact that he ordered the closing of the guantanamo prison on his first day got him even more brownie points.

As long as he keeps changing foreign policy in a positive way, he will do no harm in our eyes.
What he does or does not do within the US is something that is more difficult for us to judge. We look at most of the issues from a different angle, because our cultures are different. He could do good or bad. And we cannot really judge that because we don't feel or see it, so it doesn't influence our opinion of him.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Why hasn't the "World" the do gooders, wanna change the world, come gimme a hug, and sing Kumbaya part that is, stopped the Genocide and ritual killing in Africa?????
Hmmmmmmm maybe they are waiting on ??????
Let me guess, just a hunch,

The US Military??????

Naw couldn't be that, were just waiting for Bono, Madonna, Brad, Angelina, and the other's to go stop that stuff...

Well, I can only speak for Belgium, but we are constantly involved in Congo.
Congo is Belgiums problem, ever since our infamous butcher king Leopold the second had between 8 and 20 million congolese killed / worked to death and turned it into his personal property.

there is no denying that we f*** up congo pretty good. And we havent stopped trying to repair damages ever since. It's still costing us 200 million euros per year.

While I understand your sentiment, we are already trying to defuse a country that is 20 times our size. Taking on the rest of africa as well would be a bit too much

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

To make amends for those who felt small enough to give negative rep over an opinion. I have added rep points and given a thanks for the heads up concerning the little people. God bless their little hearts.

I'm sorry to go off topic but I can't figure out what you guys are referring to. What means "rep points"?

(obviously if I have no idea what it is I probably have no use for it but I am curious)