Thread: Health Insurance in the USA

Divide and conquer. Looks like it's working.

What am I missing x?

Originally Posted by xman

Divide and conquer. Looks like it's working.

Originally Posted by JMS

What am I missing x?

A community of individuals who have government health care to offset the insurance companies who hunt you down one at a time.

Originally Posted by xman

A community of individuals who have government health care to offset the insurance companies who hunt you down one at a time.

Dear jimmyhad,
You will never convince these people who have obviously never been crook a day in their lives or been unemployed that a national health scheme is benificial.
Medicare in Australia, as is most likely the case in other countries, is unconditional, they don,t ask why or how, you get treated for your problem no questions asked!
As far as I can see the first time you collect on private insurance in America it will be your last last time. So you had better start praying that your government can come up with a workable healthcare scheme before you get ill again. But then again, you will never miss what you,ve never had.
As I have said before I cannot understand the "dog eat dog", "sod you jack I,m allright" mentallity of today,s society.

I would also like to thank you for these thought provokeing threads. Because I have lived with a national health scheme all my life I had just taken it for granted. Thank,s again for reaffiming my faith in the system we have. It may not be 100% perfect, but for the majority of the population it,s pretty bloody close!

Dear jimmyhad,
You will never convince these people who have obviously never been crook a day in their lives or been unemployed that a national health scheme is benificial....

Please don't make assumptions about my life or anyone elses. You have no idea what you are talking about.

As I have said before I cannot understand the "dog eat dog", "sod you jack I,m allright" mentallity of today,s society.

We who do not wish to have a national health care system do not wish for a dog eat dog world. We do however believe in the goodness of our fellow man and do not think it is the governments job to twist our arm into doing what the government deems best.

JimR,

I think you made a good point. Cancer treatments cost $30,000.00 per month. I'm not sure if that is always true, but I'll take your word for it.

But why does cancer treatment cost that much? Is there some universal law that makes it so?

And here is the reason for my analogy from my preceding post: What is the root cause? Why is it that way? And if we "diagnose" the true cause of the illness, we can effectively treat the "disease" and not some secondary effect and just cover it with a band-aid.

So back to the cancer treatments - for some reason they are extremely expensive.

Why don't car dealers sell cars for $10 mil? Well of course, no one would pay that much for a car. I wouldn't.

But some will pay $60,000.00, $80,000.00, even over $100,000.00 for a car.

And some car makers sell their cars for much less, around $15,000.00 - $35,000.00.

Why not sell all cars for the highest price that people will pay? Is a $15,000.00 car all that much different from a $100,000.00 car? They're both made essentially of the same stuff. They both essentially do the same thing.

Is the manufacturer selling the $15,000.00 car just more foolish than the one selling the $100,000.00 car?

Or does the free market determine the value and the price that people will ask and pay for things like cars?

Do we buy cars through insurance and/or with the governments help?

Is health care completely free to be subject to the influences of the free market?

What would happen if health care was completely driven by the free market?

Take a look at any other commodity that is driven by the free market.

Without adding emotion into the equation, do you think the free market would treat health care any differently that it does any other goods or services like plumbers, auto mechanics, groceries, or automobiles?

Originally Posted by mhailey

Why would anyone get into the provision of health care if there was no profit?

Matt

Oh come on! You know I'm not talking about earning a crust. Sure, we all need to be paid to live, but I'm talking about state-funded healthcare where profit is NOT the driving force. The motive for the NHS in the UK, for example, is not P&L driven, not P/E ratio or yield related, not focused on EBITDA, not about growing shareholder value, etc. etc.

THere is the world of difference between earning a living and maximising your business profit such that you end up losing sight of the patient/people/human beings and screwing them over a minor point (which may or may not be there!) just so you can manage the profit in line with the expectations of your shareholders. Do the shareholders of the insurance company give a flying fig about an individual person's health? No way josé!

Have you considered that the owners/shareholders of your health insurers do not have your health interests at heart? In this case, the stark reality of aligning health provision to profit as the main driver of the organisation is even more pronounced. We all have experience of arguing/disputing/fighting insurance companies. If you win, great, you finally get the repairs done on your car. But in this lady's case the dispute outcome, though in her favour, meant a vital window of opportunity was missed. The cancer isn't interested in waiting to hear the outcome of an insurance dispute.

Originally Posted by JMS

Please don't make assumptions about my life or anyone elses. You have no idea what you are talking about.



We who do not wish to have a national health care system do not wish for a dog eat dog world. We do however believe in the goodness of our fellow man and do not think it is the governments job to twist our arm into doing what the government deems best.

JMS have you not yourself just "assumed" that I do not know what I am talking about?

So why have you waited for the government to twist your arm, to help your fellow man?

Originally Posted by Navaja

This sounds so hypocritical that makes me puke

I honestly can't understand what you mean. I personally DO participate in a democrat system that does exactly that. I CHOOSE to pay into a national health care scheme in just this fashion, and I am more than happy to do so because I know that it means I and my family will not be bankrupted by rapacious health care bills that are not covered by insurance companies that fight tooth and nail to not actually offer the services they claim to provide.

If that makes me a hypocrite, then I have obviously not understood the word my entire adult life.

Originally Posted by honedright

Just curious...

This really and truly makes me sick to my stomach. That you mistrust other people so much that you don't trust anyone, ANYONE, but yourself to do the right thing...that hanging on to your money is so much more important than even trying to make things better...that you have given up utterly. Things must have really been hard for you. I'm sorry for that. I hope they're better now. I hope that you and your family are healthy and safe, and that you don't need anyone's help to keep it that way. I really and truly hope that is true.

And I really wish the same was true of everyone. I don't want it to be necessary for the government to take a role in this, but it's clear that people can't do it on their own. It just won't work; it doesn't work now, and without a fundamental shift in the nature of the health care industry, it won't work in the future. Right now, there are people with health insurance, who have done what they are supposed to do, and their heaalth insurance providers are refusing to cover their health care bills. This is a fact. There is not one damned thing they can do about it. The only solution I see is the old one--gang up on them.

There is strength in numbers, and that is the very essence of a democratic government. That governments have failed in the past is clear. That government is imperfect is to be expected--it is, after all, a human institution and humans are all inherently flawed. But it is what we have to work with.

What I want to know is, how you think this should be handled? Honestly, do you think everyone should just go it alone? Does the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality extend to terminal illness?

**EDIT**you wrote your second point while I was writing this one. I'll come back. It's time to be with my family for a while.