Thread: Help me pick my 9mm

Technically, maybe but in reality no it doesn't.

There are so many factors to take into account (like the spring in an auto absorbing recoil energy, "riding the recoil" on a revolver, etc.) that it's not so straight forward.

The simple reality of the situation is that the recoil of a gun is enough to knock you down and hence the energy of a bullet is enough to knock someone down. What changes whether or not either the shooter or the target gets knocked down are the many energy mitigating factors.

Shooters tend to be ready for it, expect the recoil, and handle it. This is not always true. I had a friend get knocked down by his own twelve guage while taking a shot with an improper stance and goofy angle.

Targets tend to not be bracing themselves for the hit of a bullet. However, at the same time, if the bullet over-penetrates and passes through without dispersing its energy there's not much to brace against. The not knowing makes them susceptible to being tossed around but doesn't mean they actually will.

Soooooooo... it's not simple laws of physics but a complex system that needs to calculate in a lot of factors.

Aside from that, you need to remember that bullets kill via shock trauma to tissue. If it doesn't disperse it's energy it can't effectively do that. If it does disperse it's energy that doesn't mean a whole lot in the case that the target is hopped up on adrenaline when it happens.

Animals tend to be surprised by hunters and don't have that adrenaline in their system when they get hit and it makes it harder for them to resist the assault to their system. Comparing them to assailants who are excited and wound up at the time they come after you isn't exactly apples to apples.

It's a cyclical argument that can go on forever with both sides siting different reasons for why or why not. We all know more energy is better than less energy. However, we also know you use what best fits you. If energy concearns make it so you can't subscribe to the "use the gun that you are most comfortable with" mentality at least try to simplify it down to "use the biggest gun that you are comfortable with".

It is a good decision I think if you are scared for your safety to have a gun on you at all times. If it is in a safe it is nearly useless. My grandparents owned a farm in Africa (I think if you read the news you all know what is happening on farms in Africa) and owned everything from revolvers up to sniper-grade systems for hunting (I say system because gun+optics+peripherals=shooting system), including a few hand guns, a shot gun (or was it two?), and an assault rifle (G3) all of which I feel would be good close range self defense weapons (single shot rifles are essentially useless for up close...). They were all well maintained and kept in a safe. One night, the farm was robbed by a man with a machete. Needless to say my grandmother could not defend herself with a gun locked in a safe.

I have been in two situations where I was pointing a loaded gun at another human being and was going to have to make a decision. In the first case the individual didn't know I had a gun on him as a car door concealed my gun hand. He departed without incident and that was that.

In the second case shots were exchanged. I won't get into a long explanation and that is what it would take but I will say that in my case so many things went through my mind so quickly when I was thinking about the possible ramifications of shooting someone. Fortunately for both of us we both missed our targets and no collateral damage but not for lack of trying.

I normally only carry a gun at work. If I thought a robber would come in and ask for the money, take it and leave I wouldn't carry it then. The problem is that many of them will shoot their victims anyway so I carry and I think I would pull and shoot even if the perpetrator already had a gun on me. Let's hope I never have to find out.

Just want to point out that when you tense up you become a rigid body and a force exerted on your shoulder becomes a moment (torque) about your center of gravity- so a bad stance will cause you to fall. A supple/loose/relaxed body is "deformable" and thus much of the energy will be dissipated through deformations (ie flesh trauma). It stands to reason that a flexed/tense target would be more easily knocked down, while a loose/relaxed target will rag doll more. Think about being punched in the gut- if you flex your abs you might get knocked back some, if you leave them loose, (it'll hurt more but) the shock will be dissipated over your core and you will double over, but stay in place.

No doubt, Sig 226

Jester: Whatever.

Getting pretty deep into terminal ballistics theory here guys...

Although this is a fun subject, it really is a moot point in a gun fight...

Want to have some fun though, and realize that terminal ballistics is just a theory???

Take one sub MOA rifle, take 24 match grade rounds, take a bench rest, and a steady target platform.....

Buy a case of cheap pop in cans.. Set a orange TargDot on each one in the exact same spot...
Now sit back and smack some cans...

The results should be interesting as each can will explode differently...plus it is kinda fun shooting...

Any minute change in the can or the shot completely changes the results of each can's disruption...

Back in the early '70s I once shot a large sealed can of some kind of juice with a 220 Swift 40 grain @ 4,000 fps. Results were spectacular.

The chaos theory, more or less.

It would seem to make sense to use what you are comfortable with, what you feel you could use the most effectively.

I guess I have experience of this, to some degree. I was at our local range pinking with an old BSA Lightning air rifle. A springer, with a cheap scope that I'd had for years. For an air rifle, they have quite a nice kick, a really great gun.

Anyway, I was messing about with these guys who both had £800 in their guns, easily. Set up a target with a bell in at 60yrds, and I could hit it 8/10 and them maybe half that.

You don't need the 'best' gun, if you know it, if you're confident with it, then you have a much better chance of actually hitting your target. Which is always a good place to start.

Glen is talking about shock waves. Oddly shock waves propagate at a measurable rate. If you drop a pebble into a pond the ripples move out from the center gaining speed the farther they move from the center. The greater the mass of the object doing the disruption the larger the wave at the end. Think Tsunami. Small wave at the epicenter, massive wave at the other coast.

Compounding the shock waves is the fact that the can for a split second is causing the ripples to move back onto themselves. This can either cancel or intensify the wave depending on where it hit, peak or valley. Thereby creating a larger wave with more energy.

Same with a person. One bullet hits, one wave started, second bullet hits second wave started. Will the waves cancel out or intensify. Depends on the frequency of said waves. Intensity = more damage, exploding pop can. Cancellation means = bad guy still moves. Again given placement and luck.