Thread: GOD, COUNTRY, DUTY AND HONOR

Originally Posted by 59caddy

WHY? please elaborate......i want to hear all opinions, that is why i started the thread.

it could stir a flame war..
what difference does it make the religion? You can't join the military if you are not a citizen. If some citizens can join some can't based on religion, isn't that against the freedom of religion set in stone by constitution?

Originally Posted by mainaman

it could stir a flame war..
what difference does it make the religion? You can't join the military if you are not a citizen. If some citizens can join some can't based on religion, isn't that against the freedom of religion set in stone by constitution?

not at all, since the creed i reference is about judeo/christian not any other religion. this was the foundation of this country. it was not about other religion, but freedom of religion when referring to state run religion and how each person wanted to worship GOD.

Originally Posted by 59caddy

not at all, since the creed i reference is about judeo/christian not any other religion. this was the foundation of this country. it was not about other religion, but freedom of religion when referring to state run religion and how each person wanted to worship GOD.

I think you got the bit about the religion of your founders wrong. Same for the GOD part, by the way.

Just a small reminder of the forum rules, gentlemen: SRP rules of conduct - Straight Razor Place Wiki.

Although this started off on the wrong foot, there is actually some fact basis for his argument...

the American military made concessions before with many Religions...

the Amish and Quakers come to mind quickly...In fact many skipped Military service during Vietnam by converting to Islam

My reading today came across this: full story here

It was Major Hasan, though, who increasingly felt let down by the military, and deeply conflicted by his religion, said those who knew him through the mosque. Duane Reasoner Jr., an 18-year-old substitute teacher whose parents worked at Fort Hood, said Major Hassan was told he would be sent to Afghanistan on Nov. 28, and he did not like it.
“He said he should quit the Army,” Mr. Reasoner said. “In the Koran, you’re not supposed to have alliances with Jews or Christian or others, and if you are killed in the military fighting against Muslims, you will go to hell.”


I cannot find if this is truthfully or not, in the Koran?????? or if this was just perhaps his own twisted interpetation...????

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I cannot find if this is true or not in the Koran?????? or if this was just perhaps his own twisted interpetation...????

I would not hold my breath, تفسير‎ most certainly isn't your friend here. But there is not such thing as "his own interpretation" with respect to the Qur'an, you need to be a 'مُفسر‎,.

Originally Posted by BeBerlin

I would not hold my breath, تفسير‎ most certainly isn't your friend here. But there is not such thing as "his own interpretation" with respect to the Qur'an, you need to be a 'مُفسر‎,.

sir, what are you trying to hide. most of cannot read or understand what you have said in you post completely. you as a moderator and a man of education should know that not understanding each other completely is what divides us and causes friction and misunderstanding.

BeBerlin. I don't particularly care for this thread either but I agree with 59caddy on this point:

sir, what are you trying to hide. most of cannot read or understand what you have said in you post completely. you as a moderator and a man of education should know that not understanding each other completely is what divides us and causes friction and misunderstanding.

Originally Posted by 59caddy

sir, what are you trying to hide. most of cannot read or understand what you have said in you post completely. you as a moderator and a man of education should know that not understanding each other completely is what divides us and causes friction and misunderstanding.

Trying to hide? Interesting. The point I was trying to make is that there are many misconceptions of Islam. Case in point, that somebody could interpret the Qur'an on his own. It takes tafsīr (تفسير‎) for that, tafsīr being the Arabic word for "exegesis" or "commentary". An author of tafsīr is called a mufassir ( 'مُفسر‎,).

I still cannot follow the logic in your original post: "the point is why we take any chance with our men and women" would, based on your line of reasoning, be equally applicable to any non-Judeo-Christian religion. Not to mention atheists or agnostics. And what would happen if the next shooter was a Protestant?

Originally Posted by BeBerlin

I think you got the bit about the religion of your founders wrong. Same for the GOD part, by the way.

Just a small reminder of the forum rules, gentlemen: SRP rules of conduct - Straight Razor Place Wiki.

The tragedy that occurred with the Native Americans was without a doubt a travesty. A large portion of the damage was done to them was began by Europeans and the British. The people of the US continued the brutality that had been started and to their shame never rectified their war crimes against the Native Americans. Their history is as shameful a mark on US history as the Civil War.
However, the United States as a country was not established by Native Americans, so your point about the religion of the founders of the US is wrong. Most of the founding fathers and the overwhelming majority of the first settlers were Protestants. The others who had no religious affiliations strongly believed in the Christian God and Biblical values for example Benjamin Franklin.
The founders stated on many occasions that the only way the US would survive were if the Christian values of the society of the time endured. This was to say that the good moral values supplied by the Bible and the worshipping of God would rule the people such that the government would not have to dictate values. As unpopular as this is today, this is a fact. What the founders did say in their wisdom was that the government should not favor any one religious group over another although virtually all at that time were Protestants of some form. This concept was to become Separation of Church and State which is something I completely agree with.
The lies that students are taught in school today is another matter. Now kids are being taught that the founding fathers were not Christians (meaning did not believe Christ was who he said he was) but were purely deists (meaning only believed in one God and not necessarily the Christian deity). This is a lie perpetrated by activist historians who could not accept the truth.
I am not trying to argue any point. I just want the facts out there. History is taught so wrong today in the US to the point students believe lies. My only goal was to clarify the facts. Each point here can be proven by reading writings directly from the founders themselves.

I think you should not put too much point on the religion. The nut in Ft Hood was clearly sick and mentally disturbed. No sane person would ever commit such horrible action, regardless of religion. It is a cheap excuse to blame the religion.
I serve the military (here in the backwoods away from the big world). However i have no problems with my mates what it comes to the god they think to worship. We have muslims as well.