Thread: GOD, COUNTRY, DUTY AND HONOR

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I cannot find if this is true or not in the Koran?????? or if this was just perhaps his own twisted interpetation...????

I would not hold my breath, تفسير‎ most certainly isn't your friend here. But there is not such thing as "his own interpretation" with respect to the Qur'an, you need to be a 'مُفسر‎,.

Originally Posted by BeBerlin

I think you got the bit about the religion of your founders wrong. Same for the GOD part, by the way.

Just a small reminder of the forum rules, gentlemen: SRP rules of conduct - Straight Razor Place Wiki.

The tragedy that occurred with the Native Americans was without a doubt a travesty. A large portion of the damage was done to them was began by Europeans and the British. The people of the US continued the brutality that had been started and to their shame never rectified their war crimes against the Native Americans. Their history is as shameful a mark on US history as the Civil War.
However, the United States as a country was not established by Native Americans, so your point about the religion of the founders of the US is wrong. Most of the founding fathers and the overwhelming majority of the first settlers were Protestants. The others who had no religious affiliations strongly believed in the Christian God and Biblical values for example Benjamin Franklin.
The founders stated on many occasions that the only way the US would survive were if the Christian values of the society of the time endured. This was to say that the good moral values supplied by the Bible and the worshipping of God would rule the people such that the government would not have to dictate values. As unpopular as this is today, this is a fact. What the founders did say in their wisdom was that the government should not favor any one religious group over another although virtually all at that time were Protestants of some form. This concept was to become Separation of Church and State which is something I completely agree with.
The lies that students are taught in school today is another matter. Now kids are being taught that the founding fathers were not Christians (meaning did not believe Christ was who he said he was) but were purely deists (meaning only believed in one God and not necessarily the Christian deity). This is a lie perpetrated by activist historians who could not accept the truth.
I am not trying to argue any point. I just want the facts out there. History is taught so wrong today in the US to the point students believe lies. My only goal was to clarify the facts. Each point here can be proven by reading writings directly from the founders themselves.

some have already judged me wrong. i stated in the opening of the thread that i did not want to offend anyone, also i made statements not beliefs and was wanting to hear from members here. members opposing and supporting the statements are strongly urged to reply as this is the way to understand others beliefs.

The tragedy at Ft. Hood saddens all of us and makes many of us angry. As far as the topic it made me think of the Japanese/American internment camps during WWII. Since I was born very close to the end of that war I was taught from childhood to dislike the Japanese and German peoples.

"Remember Pearl Harbor" was instilled in me and very real. In my teens I had an attitude when I saw someone driving a Mitsubishi and wondered if they knew that Mitsubishi made the planes that bombed Pearl Harbor.

I got over my ill will towards the Japanese and the Germans as I entered adulthood but I still felt that 'they' were responsible for the goings on before and during that war. It wasn't until the recent Bush administration that I realized that a population of people weren't necessarily responsible for the policies their government pursued. They are certainly not responsible for atrocities committed by individuals or even extremist groups among them.

All Muslims aren't responsible for what this nut did anymore then all Christians are responsible for what Timothy McVeigh did in Oklahoma City. I guess in times such as these some of us need to vent and maybe threads like this can be good for that. I hope some of us can come away with more tolerance and understanding than they started out with. Life is short and hate isn't healthy for any of us on the planet.

Is it conceivable that Western culture could come to some sort of tipping or breaking point in its relationship with Muslims, both foreign and domestic?

Yes. I hate to say it, but there is an ugly side to human nature that feeds on fear and ignorance, and if something happened to sufficiently scare us, there's no telling what could result. We've certainly got the ignorant part ready and waiting.

Do I think we're near such a breaking point? No, not even remotely close. As such, I hope that we will all remember that the grumbling we're hearing now is nothing more than the same tired old hate mongering in different clothing that has bubbled up again and again about the Irish, the Chinese, the blacks, the Catholics, the women, the Jewish, the communists, the Latinos, the hippies, the homosexuals, etc., etc.

... etc.

But this new threat - they're DIFFERENT! They're especially different and newly, especially more DANGEROUS than those others who turned out to be all right! Let me tell you why, buddy - I got a long list of reasons!!

Baloney.

Gee, I wonder what the next bogeyman will be...

Originally Posted by BeBerlin

I would not hold my breath, تفسير‎ most certainly isn't your friend here. But there is not such thing as "his own interpretation" with respect to the Qur'an, you need to be a 'مُفسر‎,.

sir, what are you trying to hide. most of cannot read or understand what you have said in you post completely. you as a moderator and a man of education should know that not understanding each other completely is what divides us and causes friction and misunderstanding.

BeBerlin. I don't particularly care for this thread either but I agree with 59caddy on this point:

sir, what are you trying to hide. most of cannot read or understand what you have said in you post completely. you as a moderator and a man of education should know that not understanding each other completely is what divides us and causes friction and misunderstanding.

Originally Posted by northpaw

Is it conceivable that Western culture could come to some sort of tipping or breaking point in its relationship with Muslims, both foreign and domestic?

Yes. I hate to say it, but there is an ugly side to human nature that feeds on fear and ignorance, and if something happened to sufficiently scare us, there's no telling what could result. We've certainly got the ignorant part ready and waiting.

Do I think we're near such a breaking point? No, not even remotely close. As such, I hope that we will all remember that the grumbling we're hearing now is nothing more than the same tired old hate mongering in different clothing that has bubbled up again and again about the Irish, the Chinese, the blacks, the Catholics, the women, the Jewish, the communists, the Latinos, the hippies, the homosexuals, etc., etc.

... etc.

But this new threat - they're DIFFERENT! They're especially different and newly, especially more DANGEROUS than those others who turned out to be all right! Let me tell you why, buddy - I got a long list of reasons!!

Baloney.

Gee, I wonder what the next bogeyman will be...

I am not a religious person,but I do experience first hand what ignorance and fear can instill in people.Yes I am the BOGEYMAN I am a smoker!
If your a smoker you will know what it is like to be a minority that is abused and ridiculled both physically and verbally.This hatred and ignorance towards us is actually backed and promoted by governments!

I think I will fill my pipe and quietly contemplate about the world.
I wish Everyone could just live and let live.

Originally Posted by 59caddy

sir, what are you trying to hide. most of cannot read or understand what you have said in you post completely. you as a moderator and a man of education should know that not understanding each other completely is what divides us and causes friction and misunderstanding.

Trying to hide? Interesting. The point I was trying to make is that there are many misconceptions of Islam. Case in point, that somebody could interpret the Qur'an on his own. It takes tafsīr (تفسير‎) for that, tafsīr being the Arabic word for "exegesis" or "commentary". An author of tafsīr is called a mufassir ( 'مُفسر‎,).

I still cannot follow the logic in your original post: "the point is why we take any chance with our men and women" would, based on your line of reasoning, be equally applicable to any non-Judeo-Christian religion. Not to mention atheists or agnostics. And what would happen if the next shooter was a Protestant?

Originally Posted by AussiePostie

I think I will fill my pipe and quietly contemplate about the world. I wish Everyone could just live and let live.

PLEASE .... don't smoke while posting on the forum. People are breathing !