Thread: GOD, COUNTRY, DUTY AND HONOR

Originally Posted by BeBerlin

Trying to hide? Interesting. The point I was trying to make is that there are many misconceptions of Islam. Case in point, that somebody could interpret the Qur'an on his own. It takes tafsīr (تفسير‎) for that, tafsīr being the Arabic word for "exegesis" or "commentary". An author of tafsīr is called a mufassir ( 'مُفسر‎,).

I still cannot follow the logic in your original post: "the point is why we take any chance with our men and women" would, based on your line of reasoning, be equally applicable to any non-Judeo-Christian religion. Not to mention atheists or agnostics. And what would happen if the next shooter was a Protestant?

again i go back to the point that i have stated already. these are statements to get the thoughts of others here. you did not see me say we were to ban anyone from the service. i am seeking information from different points of view, not only for myself but for others to learn from.
the more we learn about each other generally brings more understanding.

Originally Posted by 59caddy

you did not see me say we were to ban anyone from the service.

"the point is why we take any chance with our men and women. there are other ways for american muslims to serve our nation without being in the military." Let's apply some basic punctuation and pragmalinguistics, shall we? "The point I am trying to make is: Why do we take any chances with our soldiers? American muslims should not serve in the US Army." Not applying question marks to a rhetoric question still makes it an indirect speech act.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

PLEASE .... don't smoke while posting on the forum. People are breathing !

I wouldn,t think of doing that,being the kind and considerant person that I am. Down the back is a creek,by the creek is a huge tree trunk, I sit on the tree stump smoke my pipe and contemplate.All very peacefull and calming.
My wife say,s I look like a garden gnome when I relax on my tree stump, but a clean shave one!

Originally Posted by AussiePostie

I wouldn,t think of doing that,being the kind and considerant person that I am. Down the back is a creek,by the creek is a huge tree trunk, I sit on the tree stump smoke my pipe and contemplate.All very peacefull and calming.
My wife say,s I look like a garden gnome when I relax on my tree stump, but a clean shave one!

To be honest I am a chain pipe smoker. When I sell stuff on ebay or elsewhere I have to do so with the caveat that it will smell of pipe tobacco and if that is going to bother you do not bid. Me, my condo and everything I own reeks of Gawith & Hoggarth's Rum Flake.

OK I have stumped myself here...

Why was it 40 years ago during Vietnam becoming a Muslim meant you were trying to be classified as a Conscientious Objector to avoid the draft, yet now you can be in the Military as a combat troop??????

The tenants of Islam changed????


I have been Googling and Binging but I can't seem to find out why????

Originally Posted by gssixgun

OK I have stumped myself here...

Why was it 40 years ago during Vietnam becoming a Muslim meant you were trying to be classified as a Conscientious Objector to avoid the draft, yet now you can be in the Military as a combat troop??????

The tenants of Islam changed????


I have been Googling and Binging but I can't seem to find out why????

Glen, not sure but if you're referring to Cassius Clay, A.K.A. Muhammad Ali, he was not a conscientious objector because he was a Muslim. Rather because he was a conscientious objector who happened to be a Muslim as well.

He is just one of the famous ones Jimmy, but yes I am to him also...

My real question though is how????

What changed in 40 years time???

What I mean is a Quaker is a Quaker the were CO's then and are CO's now same with Buddhists they don't fight in wars... I get that, I accept that, I understand that...

What I don't get is how, in 1965 you could claim being a Muslim was grounds for being a CO but now you want to be in the Army ??????

HOW????

Originally Posted by gssixgun

He is just one of the famous ones Jimmy, but yes I am to him also...

My real question though is how????

What changed in 40 years time???

What I mean is a Quaker is a Quaker the were CO's then and are CO's now same with Buddhists they don't fight in wars... I get that, I accept that, I understand that...

What I don't get is how, in 1965 you could claim being a Muslim was grounds for being a CO but now you want to be in the Army ??????

HOW????

Muhammad Ali's interpretation of Islam on the matter:

"War is against the teachings of the Holy Qur'an. I'm not trying to dodge the draft. We are not supposed to take part in no wars unless declared by Allah or The Messenger. We don't take part in Christian wars or wars of any unbelievers."

Still, in court, Ali was found lacking in his CO claim, religious objections aside. Clearly in his case, simply being a Muslim was not enough, and I'm not aware of others who have claimed that it is/was.

Guess it's probably the same as Christianity, for example. There are groups who use their interpretation of Christianity as a basis for pacifism, and there are likely similar groups among Muslims. No reason to think they all interpret their religion the same way.

Thanks Adam

So that goes back to my first post, if this is a true statement that Muslims do not fight in Christian wars or war not declared by Allah then it does make it a true statement that they cannot serve in the US Military....
correct???? That would make it against Islamic teachings, correct???

What I am asking is can you just bend Islamic teachings to your own whim like you can most other religions????

Like you just stated about Christianity being open to interpretation..
Because I was under the impression that there is no "interpetation" in Islam????

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Thanks Adam

So that goes back to my first post, if this is a true statement that Muslims do not fight in Christian wars or war not declared by Allah then it does make it a true statement that they cannot serve in the US Military....
correct???? That would make it against Islamic teachings, correct???

What I am asking is can you just bend Islamic teachings to your own whim like you can most other religions????

Dunno, I know zilch about the various interpretations of Islam and how our government would recognize them in this context. All I know is that it didn't work for Ali.

As for bending the teachings, sure, why not? I've known Muslims who drink, just like I've known Baptists who dance. We're talking about over a billion people worldwide who come from very different cultural backgrounds, so it stands to reason that there'd be a pretty wide variety who come to the US, too.