Thread: GOD, COUNTRY, DUTY AND HONOR

Originally Posted by gssixgun

What I am asking is can you just bend Islamic teachings to your own whim like you can most other religions????

Like you just stated about Christianity being open to interpretation..
Because I was under the impression that there is no "interpetation" in Islam????

I think it is more correct to say there is no interpretation in fundamentalism where someone else tells you what is right or wrong but people can have their own moral code in spite of their religion.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

To be honest I am a chain pipe smoker. When I sell stuff on ebay or elsewhere I have to do so with the caveat that it will smell of pipe tobacco and if that is going to bother you do not bid. Me, my condo and everything I own reeks of Gawith & Hoggarth's Rum Flake.

That,s the great thing about the pipe,a taste and room note for all occations.For social settings I go the cherry or vanilla aromatics,I find virtually no one is offended by those in fact most people like it.
But on my stump or when I am alone I like the English blends

I do know one thing ,I would bet my left nut that Major Hussian wasn,t a pipe smoker.

What percent of deadly physical attacks in the modern day on our military personnel - this shooting, various bombings, etc. - have been by someone other than a Muslim? The sane thing to do would be to keep them out, that's a sure way to keep our boys and girls safe from the bad ones. Like that would ever happen in this day of political correctness.

P.S. - I'm just the average white American dude, and there is a lot of hate towards and a lot of false blame placed on us. Why do so many other groups seem to be the only ones who cry 'discrimination'. I ain't no racist, there is just obviously differences between races, and I have and have had friends from all races, but after the hurricane tragedies in the Gulf of Mexico in recent years you saw, in certain places, people sitting around and complaining and holding their hand out and then complaining some more if they didn't get enough put in their hand, and I noticed a stark contrast last year during another record harsh winter with flooding in the northwest and I didn't see anyone sitting around and complaining and asking who was going to come and clean up the aftermath and give them something, and the obvious contrast that I saw and know that many many other people saw was just barely mentioned anywhere on any news. - Point? - There are just obvious differences between peoples.
We have P.C. fear gone crazy.

Sorry about that last rant, probly should be on another thread. Correction - probly wouldn't be allowed as a thread. Hope I don't get banned. May make some smile with glee.

There are usually a fair number of individual murders in the military that don't receive a whole lot of press. A mass shooting is big news, no matter who was involved.
All those mass school shootings were little white kids, except for that one Asian guy. A black kid got stomped in Chicago a while back. A few years ago, when I was at Fort Lewis, one of the clubs on post got shut down because of all the violence. It was either a hip-hop or Hispanic club, I don't remember. There's a big push now to eliminate gang affiliations in the military- Crips and Bloods and all that. Some of these gangs are sending kids through military training to learn combat skills to come back and teach the rest of the gang.

This isn't religion, it's people being stupid or crazy. This guy was a mental health professional and worked with other mental health professionals in a center for treating PTSD and similar issues. I guarantee he knew the people to talk to and things to say to get out of going to Iraq. If that was the problem, he could have gotten out of it. Why didn't anyone else notice he had issues?

To the original poster, I have few words:
1. Don't use a tragedy to justify an ill-conceived, knee-jerk reaction.
2. Don't put crazies into the same category as normal people.
3. Don't use the actions of one individual (or even a couple) to justify your prejudice.

There is no way to eliminate all casualties, especially those caused from within. There are safeguards and precautions that must be taken, but there is no way to eliminate all casualties.
When you personally have experience with the group you are talking about, I will consider those experiences in your statements.
J.

*edit* My sig actually applies here, I think.

Originally Posted by jfreaksho

There are usually a fair number of individual murders in the military that don't receive a whole lot of press. A mass shooting is big news, no matter who was involved.
All those mass school shootings were little white kids, except for that one Asian guy. A black kid got stomped in Chicago a while back. A few years ago, when I was at Fort Lewis, one of the clubs on post got shut down because of all the violence. It was either a hip-hop or Hispanic club, I don't remember. There's a big push now to eliminate gang affiliations in the military- Crips and Bloods and all that. Some of these gangs are sending kids through military training to learn combat skills to come back and teach the rest of the gang.

This isn't religion, it's people being stupid or crazy. This guy was a mental health professional and worked with other mental health professionals in a center for treating PTSD and similar issues. I guarantee he knew the people to talk to and things to say to get out of going to Iraq. If that was the problem, he could have gotten out of it. Why didn't anyone else notice he had issues?

To the original poster, I have few words:
1. Don't use a tragedy to justify an ill-conceived, knee-jerk reaction.
2. Don't put crazies into the same category as normal people.
3. Don't use the actions of one individual (or even a couple) to justify your prejudice.

There is no way to eliminate all casualties, especially those caused from within. There are safeguards and precautions that must be taken, but there is no way to eliminate all casualties.
When you personally have experience with the group you are talking about, I will consider those experiences in your statements.
J.

*edit* My sig actually applies here, I think.

if you read my original post you will see that i DO NOT have a prejudice.
also i made the statement about military members with security clearances and stated that muslims and people with any kind of foreign contacts were not allowed to hold a clearance. i stated this to show there may have been a reason for them not holding clearances due to possible extreme views.
AGAIN, these are statements not necessarily my point of view.
this thread was to gather the thoughts of all here on the subject, also i said i did not want to offend anyone. i merely wanted to hear other views on this terrible tragedy and possible ways to stop this kind of behavior from ever happening to our great men and women serving in the U.S. military.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

OK I have stumped myself here...

Why was it 40 years ago during Vietnam becoming a Muslim meant you were trying to be classified as a Conscientious Objector to avoid the draft, yet now you can be in the Military as a combat troop??????

The tenants of Islam changed????


I have been Googling and Binging but I can't seem to find out why????

I know it is an easy shot, but how is Christianity different?
The NT was used to justify the inquisition, the crusades, and more recently: colonianism in africa and slavery.

Did the NT change recently that Christianity is now a peaceful religion?
Extremist Christians are just as dangerous as extremist muslims.

Indeed, the same reasoning for barring muslims from the military could be used to bar white kids from school. Far too dangerous, those white kids shooting up schools like that.

Originally Posted by Bruno

I know it is an easy shot, but how is Christianity different?
The NT was used to justify the inquisition, the crusades, and more recently: colonianism in africa and slavery.

Did the NT change recently that Christianity is now a peaceful religion?
Extremist Christians are just as dangerous as extremist muslims.

Not actually, Christianity, doesn't quite have the same limiting factors in it...
Thou shalt not kill... is not quite as literal as it seems.... It really says Thou shalt not commit "murder" there is quite a difference...


I am still not quite sure of all this either, I have not found this "rule" yet in Islam that I keep seeing the reference too... The part about, not forming alliances with Jews and Christians and not fighting in any war that Allah or the prophet has not declared.... I have seen it in reference to the draft in the 60's and in the statement from Hassen's friend but I have not proved it to be true yet...
There is quite a bit here that looks to be interpretation which has always worked to the advantage of Religion in general, anytime you try and nail it down it twists away with a "Well no, that is not the literal translation"

But what I am seeing so far in my research is that during the Vietnam war Islam was used as a defense for proving a Objector status.. My question still is "How"

Somehow some of you think that I am prejudice against Islam and Muslims you are dead wrong....
I am suspect of all religions....I am prejudice against no one Religion...

It is very simple for me, start chanting "Death to America" yep you go right to the top of my personal watch list...I really don't care who you pray to...

I am also a huge believer in the statement "Numbers never lie" and the numbers right now tell me that a super high majority of terrorist acts are committed by Muslims...That is not prejudice that is fact...If you don't like that being a fact.... I guess the Muslims should stop blowing themselves up, shooting people, or cutting peoples heads off in the name of Allah, then maybe my opinion will change...

Now if I worked in an Abortion Clinic, then I would be watching those wacko Christians instead of those wacko Muslims....

Numbers also tell me that if you are trying to break into my front door, you are most likely a white male age 23 and a meth addict, or a grizzly bear, so when I grab a gun to defend my home grab a large calliber...
You have to play the odds...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I am also a huge believer in the statement "Numbers never lie" and the numbers right now tell me that a super high majority of terrorist acts are committed by Muslims...That is not prejudice that is fact...If you don't like that being a fact.... I guess the Muslims should stop blowing themselves up, shooting people, or cutting peoples heads off in the name of Allah, then maybe my opinion will change...

I think a distinction must me made here between Islam and Islamism:

Islamism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Islamism (Islam+ism; Arabic: إسلام سياسي) is a set of ideologies holding that Islam is not only a religion but also a political system; that modern Muslims must return to their roots of their religion, and unite politically.
Islamism is a controversial term and definitions of it sometimes vary. Leading Islamist thinkers emphasized the enforcement of sharia (Islamic law); of pan-Islamic political unity; and of the elimination of non-Muslim, particularly western, military, economic, political, social, or cultural influences in the Muslim world, which they believe to be incompatible with Islam

You guys are talking about Islamist terrorists, ie people with a political agenda. They much resemble Klansmen, really - I am not sure at all whether I can find a reference to lynching and burning crosses in the Bible, yet they claim they are doing God's will.

What makes our approach to Islam problematic is that Islam does not work like Christianity. If you take a look at the concept of Jihad, you will find that only a small minority of Muslims subscribe to what we have come to take as a fact, ie that Muslims all over the world are fighting a holy war against unbelievers. That is simply wrong. By the same token, you could claim that Protestants are trying to eradicate Catholics (and vice versa), based on the fact that two groups of politically motivated terrorists in Northern Ireland are trying to do away with each other. Or that all Protestants in the US are trying to eradicate Jews, African Americans and Allah knows what because of the Klan movement.

So, as I said previously, there is no definitive answer to your question. Whether or not these Islamist terrorists are fighting a holy war (in your country or wherever) is open to interpretation by religious leaders who, in some cases, serve a dual purpose as political leaders.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Numbers also tell me that if you are trying to break into my front door, you are most likely a white male age 23 and a meth addict, or a grizly bear, so when I grab a gun to defend my home grab a large calliber...
You have to play the odds...

Dang. And I thought I could get a second Hess 99 on the cheap...

I know little about Islam. I do however know a good many Moslims and they seem fairly "normal" to me. In fact, they are easier to get along with than my born again Christian parents. I guess I could find some Moslims that hate me because I am American. Hey, there are a group of hard core Christians called what is it? The Westboro Baptists (or something like that) who protest at the funerals of fallen American soldiers. They also feel it is good when someone murders a homosexual. They are Americans. The Constitution protects them. The military admits them because the Constitution says so.

When I joined the Navy (1977 just like 59caddy), I took an oath to defend the Constitution and the people of the United States of America. I did my best. I assume everyone else in the military has taken the same oath. When someone breaks that oath, is it an individual choice or is it because of his/her upbringing? I would think it is a dangerous path down which to walk that allows us to decide who is good enough to go out and be killed for his country. If you were check the history I think you will find that no religious group was ever excused from the draft. There are records of Mennenites imprisoned for refusing to serve. If you suddenly say that one group was not allowed to serve in the military, I'd expect the membership roles of that group to swell so rapidly it'd bust at the seams.