Thread: Heroes For Gods?

I have heard there are people, large groups of people, celebrating the shootings at Ft. Hood as a great victory and hailing the alleged shooter, Major Nidal Malik Hasan as a hero. Simultaneously there are at least as many people who are calling for Hasan's head and are ready to imprison all Muslims (worldwide) as criminals or at least watch them as potential terrorists.

Now flash back to the end of this past May when George Tiller, M.D. was gunned down in cold blood while serving as an usher in a Sunday church service.The murder of Dr. Tiller was widely celebrated as a victory and Scott Roeder, the alleged killer was hailed as a hero by many, even as he boasted about plans for more impending murders.

Am I alone in seeing the similarities in these two horrible crimes? If the supreme being to whom you chose to dedicate your life and in whose name you are willing to end the lives of fellow human beings really does require the assistance of mentally unstable disciples, I will gladly remain an athiest avoiding carefully those who profess their religion is the right one.

I agree, check out my response to the other Ft. Hood thread, sex man, religion controls it, and thus people get frustrated, and kill someone, period.

D

True story. Last time I checked, we Atheists were very far behind in religious killings...

Originally Posted by icedog

...Am I alone in seeing the similarities in these two horrible crimes?...

It hadn't occurred to me, but it's an interesting comparison.

Matthew 7:22 & 7:23.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

yea but you see if its your way of thinking it's perfectly OK. Its the other guy or group who are the criminals and terrorists and all that.

You could also argue that for a true atheist (or nihilist), it really doesn't matter if people are killing or being killed, regardless of the motive. Even the socially constructed morality is pointless in the end, once your eyes close for the last time.

Originally Posted by Del1r1um

You could also argue that for a true atheist (or nihilist), it really doesn't matter if people are killing or being killed, regardless of the motive. Even the socially constructed morality is pointless in the end, once your eyes close for the last time.

This is interesting, the way you put it. I never thought of it that way. Based on that argument then, could it also be argued that an athiest or nihilist would regard life as the quintessence of preciousness since that's all they have?

Sorry, your post just got me thinking out loud.

Chris L

Originally Posted by Del1r1um

You could also argue that for a true atheist (or nihilist), it really doesn't matter if people are killing or being killed, regardless of the motive. Even the socially constructed morality is pointless in the end, once your eyes close for the last time.

An Atheist is NOT a nihilist. Athiests believe there is no God. Nihilists? Zey belief in nussink, Lebovski!

I know good people and I know bad people, and I don't think religion or lack thereof has made ANY DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER in their goodness or badness. I've seen people who go to church every Sunday and put their money in the plate and sing the hymns and then go home and beat their wives for burning supper (hell, I've known PREACHERS who've done it). I've known athiests who treat everyone around them with respect and grace, and would rather die than hurt those around them.

I have seen absolutely nothing to convince me that what a person believes about magic-dad-in-the-sky has any correlation whatsoever to their moral worth.

Moral athiests exist, just as immoral Christians/Buddhists/Moslems/Jews et al. ad infinitum. Moral athiests belive, in their very bones, what many Christians only quote: do unto others what you would have them do unto you. We just don't need the threat of hellfire to make us be moral.

My wife is a "fake" Buddhist (her own words...she goes to temple and prays, but she doesn't actually think about attaining nirvana or suchlike). She knows squat all about Christ or God, and she is as good, honest and moral a person as I know. My sister, who is a born again Christian and has been for years, has completely abandoned her family and has had lifelong problems with drugs, alcohol and promiscuity. She lies, steals, and more.

Just a drop in the bucket.

If you think you need God to make you moral, you aren't a very moral person.

Originally Posted by Del1r1um

You could also argue that for a true atheist (or nihilist), it really doesn't matter if people are killing or being killed, regardless of the motive. Even the socially constructed morality is pointless in the end, once your eyes close for the last time.

The fact that something ends does not make its existence meaningless.

Originally Posted by norman931

What about the religious folk who believe that God is love and that we are to love and do good to everybody, even those who hate us? There are, I think, quite a few of us.

You tend to be a lot quieter than the "Burn the witches" crowd.



I disagree that religion causes most wars. Religion simply is an easily adapted vehicle for wars, readily seized upon by the greedy and opportunistic. Can you really think of a better vindication for unprovoked murder than "We're better than you in some absolute and utterly unprovable (and therefore not needing of proof) way."

Originally Posted by wongkonpow

There are hundreds of Christian organizations that help feed the starving, help build homes for the homeless, dig wells, build schools, fight to free people from sex slavery, help suicidal and at-risk youth(suicide is the second biggest cause of death for youth).

Yes the good that religious organizations do is obviously a blessing and undeniable. However, I can't help but think of the events a couple weeks ago where the catholic church (diocese?) in DC announced that it would close all its homeless shelters in the city if the city passed a law allowing homosexuals to marry.

And no, as screwed up and sick as that sounds, I did not make it up. They will let innocent people die in the streets rather than help them. They are holding the lives of the city's most unfortunate hostage in order to manipulate the voters to push forward their political agenda.