Thread: Heroes For Gods?

My recommended solution is to take all the gods out of it. As I wrote earlier, keep your spiritual relationships to yourself and the subject of your worship. If we can achieve that, then all people will have the same worth in everyone's eyes. Even in this discussion you write with a surprising tone of arrogance against those you have decided are "godless".

You wrote, "Mr Tiller may or may not be Godless in his own mind, but I would strongly suspect that many of his ardent supporters are." This statement makes me wonder if you are involved in the same discussion about the same topic. We are talking about two individuals who took a gun and the law into their own hands when they decided to shoot people in the name of the god they worship. When you say "Mr. Tiller", are you referring to George Tiller, M.D.? If so, please note that Dr. Tiller is dead. He was murdered and he would at this point in time have no thoughts at all about godlessness, brunch buffets, hybrid cars or anything at all. Additionally I don't understand your comment that Dr. Tiller has "many ardent supporters". The context of your statement tends to indicate Dr. Tiller is not a husband or father or husband or even a doctor but a bill that is to be voted on before it becomes a law or a team in some professional sport heading into the final tournament.

I think many of you are confusing theism with religion. You can be a theist and not religious and you can be religious and an athiest. There are in fact a number of very religious athiests.

Originally Posted by fccexpert

I think many of you are confusing theism with religion. You can be a theist and not religious and you can be religious and an athiest. There are in fact a number of very religious athiests.

Welcome to life in the modern age.

Isn't it a strange trip that for some people whether they live or die depends on some other person believing something that is at best unprovable and at worst a fairy tale. There is no more likelihood that the bible or the koran are any more correct and factual then the myths of the ancient Greeks, Romans, or Norseman. As Sam Harris says, we wouldn't accept someone praying to Neptune that they have a safe sea voyage although to the ancient Greeks their gods were no more a 'myth' than ours.

Meanwhile we are subjected to the diatribes of the true believers who are sure of something that is based on nothing but unreliable texts, many written hundreds of years after the 'facts' they relate by scribes who either made mistakes while they copied the manuscripts or deliberately added or subtracted from them based on their own self interest.

Strange trip is all I can say. People talk about morals ... we are mammals whose brains are just large enough to be superior to a chimp while our egos are large enough to suppose us to be made in the image of god. It would be comedy if the resulting death toll didn't keep rising.

Originally Posted by icedog

My recommended solution is to take all the gods out of it. As I wrote earlier, keep your spiritual relationships to yourself and the subject of your worship. If we can achieve that, then all people will have the same worth in everyone's eyes. Even in this discussion you write with a surprising tone of arrogance against those you have decided are "godless".

You wrote, "Mr Tiller may or may not be Godless in his own mind, but I would strongly suspect that many of his ardent supporters are." This statement makes me wonder if you are involved in the same discussion about the same topic. We are talking about two individuals who took a gun and the law into their own hands when they decided to shoot people in the name of the god they worship. When you say "Mr. Tiller", are you referring to George Tiller, M.D.? If so, please note that Dr. Tiller is dead. He was murdered and he would at this point in time have no thoughts at all about godlessness, brunch buffets, hybrid cars or anything at all. Additionally I don't understand your comment that Dr. Tiller has "many ardent supporters". The context of your statement tends to indicate Dr. Tiller is not a husband or father or husband or even a doctor but a bill that is to be voted on before it becomes a law or a team in some professional sport heading into the final tournament.

Many people on this thread have expressed the opinion that God is a bunch of bunkum. Are they not then, by definition Godless? They are not that by my judgement, but rather, that is their own choice.



Nidal Hasan was also a doctor, and a son, etc, etc. A human being.

Originally Posted by smokelaw1

It doesn't "follow" in a formal logic sense, but the point that he finds orgainzed religion to not be his bag after a rather substantial (I'm sure you'd agree after seeing his list, no?) sample I think is illustrated decently by the other examples.

You're right, I wrote "follow" while I meant "equivalent".

I don't think the last example is equivalent with the others. The first few are bad by definition (for most people).

Different religions claim to be the true religion, so if one of them really is true, it's entirely possible that you can try 99 religions but not find the right one, but get lucky on the 100th.

Originally Posted by jcd

You're right, I wrote "follow" while I meant "equivalent".

I don't think the last example is equivalent with the others. The first few are bad by definition (for most people).

Different religions claim to be the true religion, so if one of them really is true, it's entirely possible that you can try 99 religions but not find the right one, but get lucky on the 100th.

Holy Smokes! I am in full agreement with jcd on a religion topic!


The End is certainly nigh!

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Isn't it a strange trip that for some people whether they live or die depends on some other person believing something that is at best unprovable and at worst a fairy tale. There is no more likelihood that the bible or the koran are any more correct and factual then the myths of the ancient Greeks, Romans, or Norseman. As Sam Harris says, we wouldn't accept someone praying to Neptune that they have a safe sea voyage although to the ancient Greeks their gods were no more a 'myth' than ours.

Meanwhile we are subjected to the diatribes of the true believers who are sure of something that is based on nothing but unreliable texts, many written hundreds of years after the 'facts' they relate by scribes who either made mistakes while they copied the manuscripts or deliberately added or subtracted from them based on their own self interest.

Strange trip is all I can say. People talk about morals ... we are mammals whose brains are just large enough to be superior to a chimp while our egos are large enough to suppose us to be made in the image of god. It would be comedy if the resulting death toll didn't keep rising.

So well put Jimmy !!!

That is a question that has crossed my mind many times, "What makes your religion so special" ????
How can all these religions (people) possibly look over the span of (just) recorded history and possibly think that they are somehow more special, then the millions that believed in other gods before them???...

Then it hits me, "You egotistical bastards" you really do put yourselves above everyone else... and that is when the fight started...

(for you unenlightened there are tons of jokes that end with "And that is when the fight started" )

Originally Posted by gssixgun

So well put Jimmy !!!

That is a question that has crossed my mind many times, "What makes your religion so special" ????
How can all these religions (people) possibly look over the span of (just) recorded history and possibly think that they are somehow more special, then the millions that believed in other gods before them???...

Then it hits me, "You egotistical bastards" you really do put yourselves above everyone else... and that is when the fight started...

(for you unenlightened there are tons of jokes that end with "And that is when the fight started" )

Always an interesting discussion SRP + religion!




So, interesting points you bring up.

In my opinion, there is only one correct religion. I do not ascribe to the idea that they are all "right", or all partially "right", etc.

So, I cast my lot in with those guys.

In doing so, I am also, for want of a better analogy, signing up for membership to a club where I am supposed to follow ceratin rules and regulations, not just to do as I please. I am supposed to conform myself to the club's ideals.

Compare that idea to that of someone who has ascertained for himself that it's all a bunch of baloney. "I'm not buying into that!". In essence that person is putting himself even above the egotistical bastards who thought they were above everyone else... He can do as he chooses.

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Compare that idea to that of someone who has ascertained for himself that it's all a bunch of baloney. "I'm not buying into that!". In essence that person is putting himself even above the egotistical bastards who thought they were above everyone else... He can do as he chooses.

Whoa whoa whoa that just isn't fair there, because until very recently...... Whoops that not true either, because in certain parts of the world religion still rules...

I was going to say that until very recently you had to prescribe to the "Law" (re: religion) of the land so to speak, or risk anything up to and including death... But as usual I spoke out of turn, because in many places in the world today, you still can be killed for believing in the wrong GOD...