Thread: Climategate!

Originally Posted by gugi

How did you do in math - the answer is 'less than the amount that will disappear'. And since geometry is not on your side you should now be madly attempting to hack my email server in order to discredit me.
Mr. sparq will surely help you because he also has trouble distinguishing between discredit and disproval:




I really wish some of you not only read the Bible but think about what they read and perhaps begin to apply it in your life (Matthew 7:3-5).
And for those who listen but do not hear I will translate - your favorite point about political agenda motivated bias makes your posts completely ineffective.

you always try to read too deep into someones thoughts. i was referring to new ocean front property not how much... it was a joke.....lighten up and be happy....."THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING"

Originally Posted by 59caddy

just think, if the global warming crowd is right, how much ocean front property will become available...

Off topic. Winter storms are getting harder and harder every year. I live on the shore and my house is about 1,5 m from the sea level. During the worst storms it's been only about 15 cents. I think there will be time when we have to buy scuba gear to get downstairs

Originally Posted by TexasBob

Here's what I do understand about the behavior of the major climate-change scientists in the world ...

In case anyone thinks things have been taken out of context, here is a place where all the email can be found. It has a search function...

Alleged CRU Emails - Searchable

Originally Posted by gugi

I really wish some of you not only read the Bible but think about what they read and perhaps begin to apply it in your life (Matthew 7:3-5).

Ya goog, you're the one who needs to read (and obviously reread) and try to think what you read. Notice verse 5 'Thou hypocrite ...', if anyone had actually read and understood and believed what was said they would know that the only thing that is condemned is HYPOCRITICAL judgment. But that's ok, we don't expect that from you anyway, you're just really nice.

You're welcome.

Let me pour some more oil to the flames.

Obama’s Science Czar John Holdren involved in unwinding “Climategate”* scandal
Obama Science Czar John Holdren is directly involved in CRU’s unfolding Climategate scandal. In fact, according to files released by a CEU hacker or whistleblower, Holdren is involved in what Canada Free Press (CFP) columnist Canadian climatologist Dr. Tim Ball terms “a truculent and nasty manner that provides a brief demonstration of his lack of understanding, commitment on faith and willingness to ridicule and bully people”...

The authenticity of the leaked emails is pretty much accepted across the board. Spendur, I wish I had your guts to dismiss the facts the way you do it. Coming from hackers == illegal == not worth critical evaluation?

Here is an interesting letter by prof. Curry in which he criticizes the CRU for tribalism and political games:
Curry: On the credibility of climate research « Climate Audit – mirror site

To Gugi: Thank you for the Bible reference, unfortunately I have not spend enough time with its study in my unholy life. I have heard from a bunch of "nothing but science" folks like you quite a bit about the superiority of their opinions in the AGW case because they were supposed to be based on pure indisputable science, peer-reviews papers, transparent data etc. Well, we have a saying in my native language that every lie has short legs and runs out of breath eventually. I am quite glad the Climategate called the bluff of the CRU and befriended scientists, and you should be too. If not, I cannot see how you can escape a sticker of a blatant hypocrite, at least in my books.

Originally Posted by bassguy

see? this is why I don't come in here. everyone thinks they understand what's going on.

Obviously I know nothing about you, I do not know what is going on in your head, but what you are saying either means that you know better than us (with a hint of not so nice sarcasm so please stop down from the pedestal and share your wisdom with us), or that we should just shut up and go on with whatever is happening around us, or that I completely missed your point.

I would be grateful if you could elaborate a little bit more. Thank you.

I haven't read the emails. I haven't even read about them.... just the snippet I heard on NPR on the scandal. It seems from what little I've read .... and it ain't much .... that the majority of scientists in the field believe that the by products of human habitation on the earth have contributed to global warming. I don't find that difficult to believe.

I recall when scientists and medical professionals said that cigarette smoking was a major cause of lung disease. The tobacco companies found many scientists and medical professionals to dispute the claims. The devil can quote the scriptures to his own uses.

My grandfather was in his late 70s when he told me to believe half of what you see and nothing that you read. Coming from Czarist Russia to the USA in '08 he had seen a lot. I'm as skeptical as the next guy but I think there is something to humans being a major cause of global warming and just because some 'true believers' become over zealous and 'salt the mine' that doesn't mean it isn't so.

Originally Posted by sparq;

I would be grateful if you could elaborate a little bit more. Thank you.

My pleasure!

I know better than to assume monkeys with language/tools should understand the universe around them, to say nothing of trusting other monkeys' opinions, beliefs, etc. It's like thinking a grain of sand can learn enlightenment from another grain of sand.
I used to debate with people all the time about religion and philosophy, the environment, etc.. Then I had a near death experience that put everything into a very different, very plastic, perspective.
You can argue all you want about 'global warming' or 'climate change', but that shouldn't distract anyone from seeing that we live in a fragile margin of livable conditions on a highly improbable planet where each thought, word, and action effects everyone and everything else. We didn't rise from the mud just the wreck the place. We're here to figure out how to enjoy ourselves, each other, and this pale blue dot of a planet.
And shame on us for thinking pale guys in lab coats had answers and clues to what is going on around us, for trusting their information enough for this to even matter. Anyone with their thumb on the pulse of the nature finds scientific information irrelevant at best, misleading at worse.

To sum up I guess I do know better than you do in some sense, but that is irrelevant to your experience of life. All I know is I don't know anything except this: Enjoy life and don't wreck the place.

Let me pour some more oil to the flames.

Obama’s Science Czar John Holdren involved in unwinding “Climategate”* scandal
Obama Science Czar John Holdren is directly involved in CRU’s unfolding Climategate scandal. In fact, according to files released by a CEU hacker or whistleblower, Holdren is involved in what Canada Free Press (CFP) columnist Canadian climatologist Dr. Tim Ball terms “a truculent and nasty manner that provides a brief demonstration of his lack of understanding, commitment on faith and willingness to ridicule and bully people”...

You know--i read this link and all it was was an ad homenen attack by Tim Ball on Holdren. If you know anything about Ball, he's a flame thrower who is wildly popular with the CC deniers. He is not held in high regard otherwise.
One other thing: I read thru some of the voluminous emails and what struck me are two things: they provide a rare glimpse into the "human" side of informal scientific peer to peer exchange, and the vast majority of the ones I read prove just the opposite of what the climategaters are attempting to claim--they evidence a vigorous and elastic exchange between scientists. As they were not intended to constitute formal presentations, the lay public may be justifiably surprised at the tone and content of some of the exchanges. Just proves the folks who do this for a living are...folks, not so different from the rest of us.

Originally Posted by ControlFreak1

Ya goog, you're the one who needs to read (and obviously reread) and try to think what you read. Notice verse 5 'Thou hypocrite ...', if anyone had actually read and understood and believed what was said they would know that the only thing that is condemned is HYPOCRITICAL judgment. But that's ok, we don't expect that from you anyway, you're just really nice.

Oh that's a nice one, haven't heard that before. Every day I understand more and more how some american stereotypes have come about.

And as my good friend Glen said recently, some of you are so easy to manipulate OTOH I do expect from you guys a very basic level of logic. Like when A is smaller than B that you don't call B and A the same, or B smaller than A. It's really not that hard.

Originally Posted by sparq

I have heard from a bunch of "nothing but science" folks like you quite a bit about the superiority of their opinions in the AGW case because they were supposed to be based on pure indisputable science, peer-reviews papers, transparent data etc. Well, we have a saying in my native language that every lie has short legs and runs out of breath eventually. I am quite glad the Climategate called the bluff of the CRU and befriended scientists, and you should be too. If not, I cannot see how you can escape a sticker of a blatant hypocrite, at least in my books.

Not surprisingly some completely unsubstantiated claims here and again you still don't seem to get it.
Sir Isaac Newton was a jerk, but the planets still move according to his theory.

Since you can't offer any decent argument I'm going to be leaving the thread and let me finally tell you my opinion on the matter, which you can derive from the previous sentence.

In this particular case it is irrelevant. The way science works is that falsified, or misrepresented results get caught when others try to reproduce them.
If you think the sky is falling because some scientists weren't completely honest with their research, you're either very young, very sheltered, way over your place, or very malicious.

Have fun with the choir auditions