Thread: Christmas poll

Originally Posted by tabre

Seraphim, did you realize what you were starting when you created this thread? Lol

I had a vague idea....


I was pretty surprised it stayed pretty focused on the actual topic for the first 8-9 pages, and then started to go off the rails after that....

gssixguns, the more I see you comment in this thread, the more I like you. Seems like we have a similar view on this topic (or at least the arguments that fuel it).

As for the perception that Christianity seems to be the prime target to be attacked by non believers. This could be due to the fact that you are living an a Christianity dominated society, and usually the one on top is the one attacked in order to hit the largest number of people. I'm sure those in a Muslim dominated society they are probably wondering why the Muslim religion is constantly attacked by the non believers over other religions.

Finally to respond the Seraphim, In stating that only one religion can be correct if any. Then also stating that you believe your religion is the correct one. You also have to accept the reasoning that your opposition not only feels the same about their religion but that it is also possible that you are the one that is actually wrong and your opposition is correct. Not accepting this possibility only fuels the atheist view that religious followers are arrogant and unreasonable human beings.

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Although, logically speaking, you could argue that they are all wrong.

I believe you finally figured it out, my friend! Logic has everything to do with it! Welcome to the good side

Just kidding.

Let me add something to the mx. I believe that belief in atheism (some would say science -not I) also takes a certain amount of faith. It's only those that strictly say that they don't know who don't have faith.

Let me demonstrate. Here are some questions with a typcal atheist answer.

1. Where did we come from? In short, we evolved over millions of years from very basic organisms. Our planet seems to have all the elements and conditions for this to happen.

2. So where did our planet come from? In short, there was a singularity which exploded and created all the planets, stars, and galaxies.

3. So where did this singularity come from? Well...we don't know. That's just what we think happened.

4. Isn't that faith? No no no....that's science! It's a theory and that's what we think for now.

No...it's faith. Though beliefs vary from atheist to atheist, if you dig down far enough in their beliefs, they come to a point where they don't know the answer. Because the rest of their beliefs stem from that root, that means that they have beliefs which are based on no scientific evidence at all. That is called faith.

That's all.

Originally Posted by Oglethorpe

I believe you finally figured it out, my friend! Logic has everything to do with it! Welcome to the good side

Just kidding.

It's an all or nothing wager.

As St. Paul says:

14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up--if in fact the dead do not rise. 16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! 18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.

Baron, I do agree, and said so in my post, that believers of other faiths think that they are the ones who know what's what. That goes for the atheists as well. If they are right,and I am wrong, see above quote.

I believe in Christ and the Holy Trinity not just because of what I've read, or been told, but by what I have experienced in my life that confirms what I believe to be real. So, I'm all-in with Christianity, as it has never failed me yet.

I'm not too concerned if someone else wants to be an atheist, buddhist, or what not. That's their business.

Originally Posted by ENUF2

Christianity is not responsible for some of the most horrible crimes in history.
There are those "False prophets" who will lead others away from the Truth :
Love your neighbor,
Love your enemy,
Turn the other cheek,
go the extra mile,
consider others better than yourselves,
I could go on but this will do. As a follower of Christ I am commanded to test the spirits and if it does not match up to Gods standard to resist evil and flee from temptation. Never did Jesus command us to physically harm another.The problem is not Christians but the fact that most are poorly trained at best. When bombarded with false doctrine that sounds good is not checked out it becomes easy to be lead astray.

Many things have been done in the name of religion but we are commanded to defend our faith in love not violence, we are commanded to help those in need not turn away, we are commanded to share our faith even when those who are hostile to it are near. Jesus is our God and King. Think of ot this : Jesus, Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!Phil 2:6-8

When we come to know Christ as savior and Lord we come humbly and it is He where we find how we are suppose to be.It may not take Jesus to turn your life around but without Him it just remains your life and you will still need out side influences to keep it that way. That's what 12 step addition programs are about.

Now this would be a good reference showing how Christianity is different from the branch dividians, not how or why the follower of the faith died but by understanding the principals of the doctrine and understanding when they are being skewed for personal gain. It still does not support the existence of Jesus but at least you are no longer trying to swim in circles.


Saraphim, I was not trying to question your faith with that last comment and I understand you accept logic of your statements. I was only using your line of logic to illustrate that the idea of "only one religion can be the right one" means you have to accept fallibility within that line of reasoning. I intended this as a general concept and not a direct comment at you. Sorry if I implied otherwise, my bad.

Baron, thanks. But no apology necessary.

Originally Posted by tabre

I could call myself a Muslim and go blow up a building right now in the name of Allah or whatever. Does that mean that Islam is responsible for that crime?

I think you hit the point of what i think about religions (all of those).
And no, by the way, i do not believe that you as a fine gentleman would do such thing

But hypothetically:
You (well not you really, but just for conversation) could go and blow up a building or fly a jumbo to it or throw people to river just to check if they are witches etc etc.
But: would you do it without mixing the religion (you have chosen)?
Just by your own name? Just felt so? You don't like mondays?

No. You wouldn't propably do anything such idiotic and lunatic act without something that justifies your act of mental illness. Religion has thru history been a good justifier.

Originally Posted by Sailor

I think you hit the point of what i think about religions (all of those).
And no, by the way, i do not believe that you as a fine gentleman would do such thing

But hypothetically:
You (well not you really, but just for conversation) could go and blow up a building or fly a jumbo to it or throw people to river just to check if they are witches etc etc.
But: would you do it without mixing the religion (you have chosen)?
Just by your own name? Just felt so? You don't like mondays?

No. You wouldn't propably do anything such idiotic and lunatic act without something that justifies your act of mental illness. Religion has thru history been a good justifier.

Humans as a whole are pretty good at self justification.

Someone doesn't want their baby: "It's just a clump of cells...."

The vampirish idea of using embryonic cells/tissue to make us well (at the expense of the life of the embryo whose cells those were to begin with): "Well, we would just be discarding them anyways....can't let them go to waste!"

As I mentioned in my previous posts in regards to Stalin, Slarti, etc. who did things in the name of "progress", or whatever humanist reason they felt like giving to justify their actions.

Yet you are only calling to task the ones who do so nominally in the name of religion, which is what I take exception to.

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Please cite the incidents you are refering to?

I'm specifically referring to the Spanish Inquisition, for which implements of torture were intricately designed to create the greatest suffering without killing a person, that they might have the opportunity to "confess" Christ prior to being dispatched or released blinded, burned, dismembered or otherwise deformed.

Regardless of the numbers of people harmed during these events, the fact that the ideology would permit such action is bad enough. The fact that the scriptures don't reference a warning against such heinous action is a testament to their errancy. The omnipotent, all-loving God should have seen fit to warn men against it.