Thread: Christmas poll

Originally Posted by ZMKA

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

- Epicurus

Amazing how many people are actually smarter than God.

(NOT)

()

Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. - God

Wow. He was pretty full of his/herself.


/ducks

Originally Posted by ControlFreak1

Amazing how many people are actually smarter than God.

(NOT)

()

Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. - God

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

He was...

Was, is, and is to come!

Originally Posted by ControlFreak1

Amazing how many people are actually smarter than God.

(NOT)

()

Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. - God

Though you must admit, there's something to be said for independant thought... isn't there?

I've been through the Christianity thing. For many years of my life I read the bible every day, followed the great commission (bringing others into the fold) and went to church several times a week.

Muslims are quite confident that their faith is the correct one. So are Mormons.

Can you suggest a method on how we can really be sure that our individual faiths are correct outside of a birthright? If God is God, why does he seem to make it so confusing?

I'd be excited if I was holding a winning lottery ticket... it might have what appear to be the right numbers, and a physiological reaction would ensue even if I didn't have the money yet... and it could still be wrong.

How can you be so sure of yourself?

Originally Posted by JMS

And if God controlled our actions could we ever know true love? true compassion? If we are not free to make mistakes and fall on our faces we could never become perfected. If we had no evil to stand against could we really ever be good?
It is the process of free will given us by our creator that allows us to be great or generous or patient in the face of evil. without this process existence would be pointless. We would be static.

The bible is a little blurry on the free will subject.
It never actually mentions "free will" or a reasonable facsimilie... it does, however, mention that God interferes with free thought when He "hardens Pharaoh's heart" and such, although it doesn't go into detail as to the extent of God's interference, or if there is a price we must pay if we sin on God's behalf or by his design.

I fully agree with you that evil is a necessary *ahem* evil. Meaning is what life is going for... without an obstacle, there are no heroes. The yin and the yang are king.

Because for one thing the Bible is unlike any other book, it is completely unique, and therefore Christianity is unlike any other belief, and of course the leader or Big Cheese or what ever you may want to label the head of any belief system (in this case Jesus) is unlike any other also. And you should realize that God is not the one who made such a mess of things and our Adversary who is the admittedly second most powerful being in the universe (which throws quite a dynamic into it, people just don't realize who they are dealing with, we are used to thinking so highly of ourselves) has spent centuries, probably without the need to even go to sleep, along with his many fellow outcasts and even with some help from man, some downright voluntary and some out of just plain ignorance, making the messes down here. Have you ever heard that 'still small voice' that the prophet of old Elijah referred to, not necessarily audible, the Lord only spoke audibly to very few and I ain't one of them.
And the confidence that you ask about is also inherently a matter of faith no matter what your confidence is in, and it is something which develops and grows over time. Of course some people are just stubborn obstinate proud and narrow minded, which is no doubt sometimes mistaken for confidence.

Originally Posted by ControlFreak1

Because for one thing the Bible is unlike any other book, it is completely unique, and therefore Christianity is unlike any other belief, and of course the leader or Big Cheese or what ever you may want to label the head of any belief system (in this case Jesus) is unlike any other also. And you should realize that God is not the one who made such a mess of things and our Adversary who is the admittedly second most powerful being in the universe (which throws quite a dynamic into it, people just don't realize who they are dealing with, we are used to thinking so highly of ourselves) has spent centuries, probably without the need to even go to sleep, along with his many fellow outcasts and even with some help from man, some downright voluntary and some out of just plain ignorance, making the messes down here. Have you ever heard that 'still small voice' that the prophet of old Elijah referred to, not necessarily audible, the Lord only spoke audibly to very few and I ain't one of them.
And the confidence that you ask about is also inherently a matter of faith no matter what your confidence is in, and it is something which develops and grows over time. Of course some people are just stubborn obstinate proud and narrow minded, which is no doubt sometimes mistaken for confidence.

I appreciate your faith. I was there once, but I'm not anymore.
I'm now a slave to logic. God has an open invitation to prove himself to me once and for all, and so far... I'm still waiting.
This matter of faith you speak are the unclaimed lottery winnings I spoke of. Till you got the goods, its all just talk...

The bible (to me) is so full of contradictions and WTFs that I just have to dismiss it. Judaic "scripture" was passed down through generations before it was canonized, just like Grandpa's 'big fish' story... which makes it appear to be unreliable. Also, the all-loving God of the new testament, commands the killing babies in the old testament (1 Sam 15)... among other things... so, I have to ask myself if I am actually more merciful than an all-merciful being... which is impossible. I mean, I would never even think of harming a child, and yet to God, its just business.

Would you kill a child if God commanded it? How would you know if it was really a command from God or if you were just going crazy?
Doesn't there have to be a litmus test for God? If there is, what is it...? because we could use it now, and settle this once and for all...

whether you believe it or choose not to..just think about this. nothing else has so much of an impact on peoples lives as JESUS CHRIST. yes wars have been fought and people killed because of his name. i would also like to remind all that Christmas eve and Christmas day are one of the most peaceful days on earth.. during WWII enemies laid their weapons down and came together for worship(i know this for a fact, i had family there). when nothing else could stop the fighting, the celebration of his birth brought peace, if for just a little while...my friends that is "power" no matter how you want to doubt and belittle the faith of Christians.....MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ONE AND ALL......

Originally Posted by 59caddy

.....MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ONE AND ALL......

I will be enjoying my family and friends and exchanging gifts with them on Christmas. I fully appreciate the impact of the holiday and I hope you have a happy and merry one!

I actually suspect that you were not once here where I am at, but that I was where you use to be and that I was where you are now. I would refer you again to Isaiah 55:9, and if you could really understand so much then you would be maybe just as smart as God. Hey, He not only commanded the killing of everyone including the little ones and animals, He infact directly killed who knows how many millions in the flood. And we can not comprehend the depth of His thoughts much less His feelings about these matters, if you have experienced heart break and sorrow imagine that multiplied by infinity and taken to the depths of forever and then you would probably just begin to have an idea of what the Lord has to deal with - check out Ezekiel 18:23 and 33:11, the Lord does not take pleasure in the perishing of the wicked. You have been dangerously and in a no doubt somewhat stealthy manner drawn into one of the definitely most ancient belief system - humanism. And they are obsessively fixated on claiming how much better and smarter and compassionate and logical that they are than God, and always have been. And I will throw in a little disclaimer here to not follow me or anyone else except in the fact that they may be following the Lord who you are following and they are just ahead of you on the same trail so to speak. Your examples are of certain specific historical events, I am skeptical of skepticism, I wouldn't trust a voice that told me to kill a baby, and so far I haven't heard any voices except the ones of people who I am actually talking with or around. Maybe, hopefully you are just a prodigal in a far country.
And though many just don't like it there are certain things that you will never understand, certain things God has specifically said that they are mysteries and He has also told us that He has His own secrets in Deuteronomy 29:29 which are not for us. I do appreciate your frustration, wish that I could help everyone and had all the answers, but I can tell you where they are - they are in The Book, the Monarch of Books, the Holy Bible.
Infact I am interested in the specifics of contradictions that you refer to. I looked at that in years past, I haven't heard of any provable ones or any supposed new ones, they seem to have been gone over quite extensively long ago.