Thread: Christmas poll

Originally Posted by Miner123

Do you believe George Washington existed? How do you know? Were you there? He could have been an invention of unscrupulous history revisionists, an elaborate hoax.

I know that sounds absurd, but you have to have faith that he existed. There is no rock solid proof.

FAIL

We have plenty of evidence that Washington lived. Birth certificates, portraits, deeds. He was one of the presidents too wasn't he? That's not faith at all. Totally different ball park.

Originally Posted by ControlFreak1

The Bible is the greatest and most extensive compilation of historical eye witness accounts and records in the world by far.

OH STOP. STOP. YOU'RE KILLIN' ME.



*wipes tears from eyes*

Portraits? Like, polaroids?
Oh, so you have a bunch of old documents and first hand eye witness historical accounts and testimonies to the fact that Washington existed, do you? That's the 'PASS' proof is it?


Quit editing X.

Originally Posted by xman

FAIL

We have plenty of evidence that Washington lived. Birth certificates, portraits, deeds. He was one of the presidents too wasn't he? That's not faith at all. Totally different ball park.




OH STOP. STOP. YOU'RE KILLIN' ME.



*wipes tears from eyes*

I know I took it to the extreme, but you get the point. I mean how do you know his birth certificate is real. How do you know the portraits are really of George Washington? Yes, he was a President.

Jesus never even had a home of his own.

Originally Posted by ControlFreak1

Portraits? Like, polaroids?
Oh, so you have a bunch of old documents and first hand eye witness historical accounts and testimonies to the fact that Washington existed, do you? That's the 'PASS' proof is it?

*sigh* I'm done here. Keep failing if you like.

Originally Posted by ControlFreak1

Quit editing X.

Sorry, I'm a spelling nazi.

The more archaeological evidence that is uncovered the more the bible is supported.

Originally Posted by wpfontenot

That's not proof, there is no rock solid proof. That's why it's called "faith".

Jesus' apostles all died for the belief that He is exactly who He said He is and they lived with Him for 3 plus years. People of any time period may die for the truth but how many would die for a lie.

Luke wrote:
Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught. Luke 1:1-4. He also wrote:

In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach 2 until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. 3 After his suffering, he showed himself to these men and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. Acts 1:1-3.
Dr. Luke not only wrote down First hand accounts but also investigated them. Just because these men didn't have modern means of information storage does not mean their accounts were not accurate.

Go back to post 85 to see a chart of Manuscript authority of the New Testament compared to other classical works. Most "Christians" in any school are not equipped to defend their faith because of " books " most have become lazy do not study to show themselves approved. It's real easy to key up academic information without ever seeing the underlying spiritual truth. Most of those who call themselves "Christian" believe they are going to heaven (fire insurance) but they do not care to try to understand what Jesus meant when he said "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me." Matt. 16:24.

Muslims are quite confident that their faith is the correct one. So are Mormons.
Can you suggest a method on how we can really be sure that our individual faiths are correct outside of a birthright? If God is God, why does he seem to make it so confusing?

God did make it confusing to those He has Not Yet called but to those who have put their trust in Christ alone the Holy Spirit leads us into better understanding of His Word.
He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth. The world at large cannot receive him, because it isn't looking for him and doesn't recognize him. But you do, because he lives with you now and later will be in you. John 16:17.


Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet, Mormons believe He is the Spirit brother of Lucifer (Satan /the deceiver/).Basically they both took part of God's word and made it their own. Understand if Jesus is not exactly who He said He is He would be a liar and nothing could be trusted. (This is where Faith comes into play).

As for birthright, Jesus told Nicodemus we must be born again and when we are born of the spirit: Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God-- 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.John 1:12-13. This makes us Joint Heirs
Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. Romans 8:17.

The proof of Jesus' existence is there take it for what it is. People thought King David didn't exist at one time as also Nimrod ,Nebuchadnezzar and others. No photos, birth certificates but they were people of antiquity. The whole reason people refuse Jesus is they do not want to think for a moment that there is more and we need a savior. It's only when we see our sin (falling short) according to God's standard will we look for the answer.

YES, Wouldn't one logically think that after two thousand years, if He did not live at that time the stories would be debunked and not still debated?
Historical writings do not dismiss His existance only who He claimed to be.

Originally Posted by xman

Sorry, I'm a spelling nazi.

AHHAAAA!!! I knew it!

[QUOTE=ZMKA;507549]In my travels I have not seen evidence that I would consider adequate to convince me that Jesus (the character from the Bible) ever actually existed.
Flavius Josephus wasn't born by the time Jesus died, so his very few (and contreversial) mentionings of Jesus are very, very suspect. The same is true of Pliny the Younger - not born until long after Jesus was gone. Written commentary by a person who had first person contact with Jesus does not exist outside of the Bible. The Bible was not written until 40 years after the supposed ascension. Written discourse amongst the Pharisees or any of Jesus' enemies are completely absent.


Wouldn't one think there would be mountains of discredit by these same Pharisees or other enemies. They never said he did not exist, only had him killed for who He claimed to be.
Also, 40 years is not long enough for myths to form since there can still be people alive to dispute it.

Originally Posted by xman

It certainly does not mean that it was. It stands to reason that some details of the edict or the census would remain somewhere as hundreds or even thousands traveled to the town of their birth to be counted. And given the other number of spurious details of impossible magic tricks it is FAR more likely that the obvious liars are lying again.

Lets turn this around, your point of view cannot be proven either so why all the name calling?