Thread: Respect vs. Blasphemy

Originally Posted by Stubear

Another way to cut this is that atheism is the DENIAL of the existence of a supreme being, in which case atheism is a religious position.

On one side you have the religious claiming that God exists, and on the the other are the atheists, denying that God exists. Both are religious positions.

This is one way to put this, but it makes the question more philosophical, not religious. By saying that where atheists stand depends on God is somewhat the same as claiming that Christians (or atheists) denying the existence of Allah only proves there is Allah.

Originally Posted by NYCshaver

woops I messed that one up.

Ya right. Wiggle all you want, we know that you have just another systems of 'beliefs'. Reverse it and say deny - so what? It's still your belief. Oh but it makes you feel better about yourself and trick the simple minds who will into buying it. Your just in denial. Your a religious fanatic. Sorry, won't work here.

Originally Posted by ControlFreak1

Ya right. Wiggle all you want, we know that you have just another systems of 'beliefs'. Reverse it and say deny - so what? It's still your belief. Oh but it makes you feel better about yourself and trick the simple minds who will into buying it. Your just in denial. Your a religious fanatic. Sorry, won't work here.

Now it's a system of beliefs? plural? So since you seem to think you know
my beliefs why don't you list them?

And if it makes you feel better to call atheism a religion go ahead. It doesn't
change a thing. You still haven't backed up any of your claims.

Originally Posted by NYCshaver

woops I messed that one up.

I meant to say that atheist just deny the existence of one more god then the religious.

Christians deny the existence of plenty of gods. Atheist just deny those
plus the christian god.

Yeah, I love that quote

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”


Though I think its a bit more zingy with just the first part.

Originally Posted by ControlFreak1

Ya right. Wiggle all you want, we know that you have just another systems of 'beliefs'. Reverse it and say deny - so what? It's still your belief. Oh but it makes you feel better about yourself and trick the simple minds who will into buying it. Your just in denial. Your a religious fanatic. Sorry, won't work here.

You are mistaken. You're just in denial. You're a religious fanatic.

Originally Posted by ControlFreak1

... you have just another systems of 'beliefs'.

Yes, this is true, however, you have the very same system of beliefs we do, based on rational empiricism. You believe that the sun will rise, that medicine works (largely due to evolutionary theory made practice even if you deny that you believe it, functionally you still believe) and that when the tree falls in the forest, even though noone is there to hear it, that it does make a sound. These are the things we all believe. We rationalists don't understand why you theists and spiritualists also believe in things which cannot, indeed will not be rationally detected and make no sense at all.

A person's religion is mainly determined by the part of the world that person lives in and what their parents taught them. So why would your religion be closer to the truth if you were born in the Western world than in the Middle East? Or vice versa? Are the miracles described in the Bible more cedible than those in the Koran?

Religion and faith are overlapping concepts. Faith is a matter of trust. So you trust that your faith is the right one. But you cannot be sure.

As an atheist I am happy to respect anyone's religion, I will not respect one person's religion more than someone else's religion.

I like to quote Einstein. When questioned about God and religion on behalf of an aged Talmudic scholar, he replied:

"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropomorphic concept which I cannot take seriously. I feel also not able to imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. My views are near to those of Spinoza: admiration for the beauty of and belief in the logical simplicity of the order and harmony which we can grasp humbly and only imperfectly. I believe that we have to content ourselves with our imperfect knowledge and understanding and treat values and moral obligations as a purely human problem — the most important of all human problems."

Originally Posted by Pete_S

You are mistaken. You're just in denial. You're a religious fanatic.

Whew! Thank goodness for the spelling police, I just wasn't payin' 'ttention. I didn't think that you'd notice. Well, see, you can get somethings right, now can't you. Maybe someday before it's too late you'll work on the important stuff.

Originally Posted by Stubear

On one side you have the religious claiming that God exists, and on the the other are the atheists, denying that God exists. Both are religious positions.

Nope. Check your terms again.

Originally Posted by ControlFreak1

Maybe someday before it's too late you'll work on the important stuff.

We are. Maybe you will, but I'm not gonna hold my breath on it.

I'm going to interject ... FWIW... as a guy who straddles both sides of the fence ...IOW, I am not sure of what I believe ... if anything ... but it ain't for lack of trying. To quote something I read in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous;

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation."


So for both sides in this debate, if you aren't looking into both sides of the issue with an open mind you're cheating yourself ....... just IMHO.