Respect vs. Blasphemy

**NYCshaver** · 01-08-2010, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by xman

AH! We do not 'know' with certainty any such thing, but to believe it without evidence is delusional. The burden of proof is on you making the claim to provide evidence, not me to disprove it. Because you cannot disprove the existence of an invisible, pink elephant floating in my living room does not mean I should entertain the notion that there is one.

Again that's not the definition of delusional. It's the definition of faith.
Delusion and faith are not synonyms.

And I made no claims. I just asked you how you knew those two claims were delusions.

Karma is basically just cause and effect. Plenty of evidence for that.

**xman** · 01-08-2010, 01:08 AM

Originally Posted by NYCshaver

Again that's not the definition of delusional. It's the definition of faith.
Delusion and faith are not synonyms.

And I made no claims. I just asked you how you knew those two claims were delusions.

Because ...

delusion |dɪˌl(j)uːʒ(ə)n|
noun
an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument

Originally Posted by NYCshaver

Karma is basically just cause and effect. Plenty of evidence for that.

karma |ˌkɑːmə| |ˌkəːmə|
noun
(in Hinduism and Buddhism) the sum of a person's actions in this and previous states of existence, viewed as deciding their fate in future existences.
• informal destiny or fate, following as effect from cause.

So not actually cause and effect at all.

**NYCshaver** · 01-08-2010, 01:21 AM

Originally Posted by xman

Because ...
delusion |dɪˌl(j)uːʒ(ə)n|
noun
an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument

No you said believing something without evidence is a delusion.

So how is karma or reincarnation contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality?

Originally Posted by xman

Quote:
karma |ˌkɑːmə| |ˌkəːmə|
noun
(in Hinduism and Buddhism) the sum of a person's actions in this and previous states of existence, viewed as deciding their fate in future existences.
• informal destiny or fate, following as effect from cause.
So not actually cause and effect at all.

I don't know where you got that definition but it's not a very good one for buddhism. That's hinduism.

I think this is a better definition:

Karma means "intentional action" and refers to the universal law of cause and effect. Karma is created not only by physical action but also by thoughts and words.

Buddhists do not think of karma as "destiny" or as some kind of cosmic retribution system. Although the fruits of "good" karma might be pleasant and beneficial, all karma keeps one entangled in the cycle of death and rebirth.

**ControlFreak1** · 01-08-2010, 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by xman

No it's not.

QUIT SAYING THAT !!!

YouTube - "The Cliffs of Insanity!!!" from The Princess Bride

**xman** · 01-08-2010, 02:02 AM

Originally Posted by NYCshaver

No you said believing something without evidence is a delusion.

My bad.

Originally Posted by NYCshaver

... the cycle of death and rebirth.

... is still not cause and effect.

**NYCshaver** · 01-08-2010, 02:43 AM

Originally Posted by xman

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCshaver
... the cycle of death and rebirth.

... is still not cause and effect.

I never said the cycle of death and rebirth was cause and effect.

I said Karma was cause and effect.

**ENUF2** · 01-08-2010, 02:47 AM

I do not believe that god(ess[e](s)) certainly don't exist, but because none have manifested or can be tested for I adopt the position that there are none.

A double negitave means a positive Right? Just teasing, I know what you ment,

I operate as though they aren't there because functionally they aren't. I don't pray to or preach about them, etc.

No you may not pray but you do a fairly decent job preaching against them.

A belief is not quite the same thing as a position about them.

What, You hold your position without belief in it? I don't think so.

Our straw man:
Religion-
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith"
and Faith-
Faith- (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust (3) : something that is believed especially with strong conviction.

It is not Religion in a Corporate sense but it is a personal belief system which dictates ones motive and direction.

Call it what you wish but I think that straw man just put a little meat on his frame.

**NYCshaver** · 01-08-2010, 03:02 AM

Originally Posted by ENUF2

It is not Religion in a Corporate sense but it is a personal belief system which dictates ones motive and direction.

Call it what you wish but I think that straw man just put a little meat on his frame.

Ok let's assume atheism is a belief system even though it's not.

How does atheism dictate ones motive and direction?

**ENUF2** · 01-08-2010, 03:46 AM

How does atheism dictate ones motive and direction?

It is not just Atheism that dictates motive and direction but the make up of all that is us. For me, being Christian my motive, direction, and purpose comes from my relationship to Christ. Because of Him I'll go out of my way to help others in need, I will do the work of a missionary here at home or travel however far to fulfill a need. Believe me without the conversion of a surrendered life there is no way I'd be doing what I do. Without God, how we are raised, what we learn over the years, our own personal wants and needs become our standards. We most likely are still good natured productive people but I can honestly say rarely do I see a professing Atheist under the bridge downtown helping to feed the homeless. I have never spent time with one on the mission field working with orphans over seas or here at home. Each persons priorities comes from what they believe. It does not necessarily make them wrong or right it just makes them different.

**xman** · 01-08-2010, 04:45 AM

Originally Posted by NYCshaver

I never said the cycle of death and rebirth was cause and effect.

I said Karma was cause and effect.

Actually you said Karma was cause and effect and defined it as part of a cycle of death and rebirth and I said it isn't. I'm done with this circular argument now.

Originally Posted by ENUF2

No you may not pray but you do a fairly decent job preaching against them.

ty. I do try.

Originally Posted by ENUF2

What, You hold your position without belief in it? I don't think so.

Think again.

Originally Posted by ENUF2

it is a personal belief system which dictates ones motive and direction.

Nope.

Originally Posted by ENUF2

I can honestly say rarely do I see a professing Atheist under the bridge downtown helping to feed the homeless. I have never spent time with one on the mission field working with orphans over seas or here at home.

Well when we're 80% of the population we'll be able to say the same thing about you lot.
http://www.amazon.com/Atheists-Guide.../dp/0007322615

... the proceeds from the book go to the Terence Higgins Trust, a charity helping AIDS victims. There is no downside to this book and it is a pleasant, light read. None of the contributors threaten you with being burned alive for all eternity, ...

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