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    all your razor are belong to us red96ta's Avatar
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    Default Big hub-bub in Arizona right now...

    What say you on this issue?

    Personally, I don't see anything wrong with it...I don't see this ushering in any 'gestapo-type ID checks' that some media sources seem to think will happen. You would think that this would be a non-partisan issue, but since it would take an estimated $4B to set up a fence along the entire southern US border and yet neither Bush nor Obama seem particularly interested

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    They call me Mr Bear. Stubear's Avatar
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    Sorry, which issue? Is there a link available?

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    Shattered Logistics's Avatar
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    Stubear,

    This might help you out.
    Arizona Enacts Stringent Law on Immigration - NYTimes.com

    Stubear, in a nutshell it's an immigration law that passed in Arizona that allows officers to detain, check immigration status and deport if they feel the need. Sadly, the local government is targeting a specific community. It has gained notoriety by the President of the United States as well as the media.

    This quote is from the article linked above in the New York Times.

    It requires police officers, “when practicable,” to detain people they reasonably suspect are in the country without authorization and to verify their status with federal officials, unless doing so would hinder an investigation or emergency medical treatment.
    I normally don't engage in controversial debates but you had a legitimate question I may have been able to assist you with.

    I hope it helps, Stubear.

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    Newbie Desdinova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logistics View Post
    Sadly, the local government is targeting a specific community.

    Yeah, like when they targeted the fast driver community with stiffer fines for speeding.

    Whether we agree or not, it is called "illegal" immigration. It is called this because there are laws against it. Laws are enforced and have punishments attached.

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    Senior Member AnarchoPhil's Avatar
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    yea, the law is the law... remember when black people had to stand at the end of the counter to order a Coke? and then they had to leave while white people could sit at the counter and drink?

    there already are gestapo check points.

    YouTube - Baptist pastor beaten + tazed by Border patrol - 11 stitches


    YouTube - 4409 -- NAZI Checkpoint Guards get a taste of their own medicine!

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    driving through arizona last july i went through several border patrol stops....and one lady asked me if there was anyone else in the truck besides myself and my roommate.

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    Senior Member billyjeff2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desdinova View Post
    Yeah, like when they targeted the fast driver community with stiffer fines for speeding.

    Whether we agree or not, it is called "illegal" immigration. It is called this because there are laws against it. Laws are enforced and have punishments attached.
    The problem that's got so many folks all a-twitter isn't the concept of going after illegal immigrants; the concern is that the enforcement of the law would result in too many innocent US citizens, who are of hispanic/latino descent, being disproportionately stopped/ affected by this law.

    As far as another poster's comment about how we're already required to carry proof of citizenship-type ID, and that if you're stopped without having it on you, you can be detained--I don't know about you, but there are tons of times I'm out and about sans any ID (jogging on the beach; walking my dogs; etc.) and I wouldn't want to be subject to being detained by the police in those instances.
    If I'm correct-I believe the new law requires that there be probable cause first before the authorities can ask for proof of citizenship, but we've all seen too many instances of how that prophylactic restriction gets abused...
    Last edited by billyjeff2; 04-28-2010 at 06:05 PM.

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    Member AZrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyjeff2 View Post
    If I'm correct-I believe the new law requires that there be probable cause first before the authorities can ask for proof of citizenship, but we've all seen too many instances of how that prophylactic restriction gets abused...
    You are correct. The new law also states that there must already be contact (they can't stop you merely for suspicion of being illegal) and the probable cause can't be based solely on race.

    Still, just as you've said, that's easy enough to circumvent. The MCSO (Maricopa County Sheriff's Office) engages in profiling all the time, with the flimsiest of justification.

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    Senior Member blabbermouth niftyshaving's Avatar
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    Arizona has a long history of not trusting ID from hither and yon...

    In Arizona's defense it is very big state with a thin population and
    could quickly get more overrun than it already is. I have friends in
    southern Arizona that have considered abandoning their home because
    of the immigrant foot traffic. They are 20 miles from their mailbox
    and 20 miles from the border....

    Between economic disparity and rampant drug problems there are some
    law enforcement issues to ponder. This is not new -- it was obviously
    a festering problem in the '60s and it has not diminished.

    In Mexico City the locals commented to me about some of the
    large "invasions" that have colonized what used to be parks and
    open spaces in the city. These shanty towns initially get electricity via
    a mesh of extension cords miles long and water via a mesh of garden
    hoses miles long....

    I do not think the Arizona law will survive the courts but the constitution
    mandates some things that are fully the responsibility of the federal
    government but fall heavy on the border states.

    Time will tell.

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    People tend to believe what they want to believe. As I am white and live in New England, I can't imagine this Arizona issue will affect me very much (perhaps it may stop some of the potential landscapers that work around here but I do my own work). I posted only to explain what I believe is the cause of angst over the new law. Now, this discussion has run its course and I will adopt a "wait and see" attitude.

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