Thread: Big hub-bub in Arizona right now...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Sorry Brad and Billy Jeff but the law hasn't even gone into effect so the PROBLEM precedes it...

Now once again, which one of you wants to explain it to my Grandparents, why were they subjected to these unfair practices when they had to become legal citizens, and had to learn English, and study the US Constitution to be become citizens... They would like your answer please .... Why were they discriminated against like this????? Why couldn't they just come and work here and send the money back to the old country??? and make sure that things said press one for English and 2 for *** why is that???? Please explain why ????

Right on. I had to go through all that plus more to become a legal immigrant

Underlying this whole "debate" is the issue of Hispanic/Latino. Those words, in themselves, when applied to people coming across the Mexican border, are pure bunk.

Calling people Hispanic or Latino is little more than a linguistic attempt to imply that natives are as alien to the North American continent as are people of European descent.

The fact is, the people about whom these right-wingers in the southwest and elsewhere are griping have far more genetic material reaching back the 12,000+ years that they've been here. Once again, in the 21st century no less, we've found ANOTHER WAY TO SCREW THE INDIANS.

Whether you're for the law or against it, the bottom line is that it's another cultural assault on peoples whose ancestors have inhabited the so-called southwest for a period of time that reaches back to days when their white European contemporaries were wrasslin' with the buzzards over what the wolves left.

Originally Posted by ChrisL

Having any kind of law on the books that doesn't really mean anything or is largely ignored by the government expected to enforce such a law is one of the many problems we have in this country and such occurrences are insult and injury to the citizenry.
Chris L

I agree. Washington has failed to do their sworn duty. They all need replaced this fall.

As I go back through the posts on this thread, I find it interesting that the folks raising the most fuss are from areas that are mainly not affectced by the situation on the southern border.
Folks want to bring race into this discussion. it's not about race.

I'm very tired of paying for people who come over illegally. We pay for their medical bills when they goto the emergency rooms. We pay for public eductaion for their children. We pay for their lack of insurance with higher premiums when they get into accidents and don't have insurance.
People who come into this country pay for very little to nothing to support society.
The people who employ them don't pay taxes for them, they just tend to hold it out and keep it for themselves. They don't have insurance of any kind. They work and send most of their money out of the country, so they don't even contribute that much to the local economy.

Those who are here legally work their ever living ass off. They have the true small business mentality. They work long hours and scrimp and save. They are my neighbors and I see them every day. I live in a working class barrio. My youngest goes to an elementary school where 85% of the school is hispanic. So please don't get me wrong, I appreciate their work ethic, and sense of communitiy pride.
Oh, they hate the illegals too....it makes it just that much harder for them.

So this is not a question of race, it's a question of doing something correctly and legally, or not.

Originally Posted by gregs656

So? That doesn't make it right.

No, it doesn't. I never said that it did make it right. Just that it has.

Originally Posted by jhenry

I beg to differ...What is VERY American is the freedom to speak our minds--even in a forum such as this.

The fact that every minority group has experienced the same anti-immigrant ordeal does not make it right. A wrong is still a wrong no matter how you slice it. It was wrong to categorize Irish immigrants as the tertium quid of humanity before the Civil War, just as it was wrong to categorize Italians, Russian Jews, Chinese, Japanese, and Eastern Europeans before WWI as a sub-species of humanity.

We've come a long way, but the path has not been smooth. Nor has it been straight. I wonder why? Why does this nation of immigrants continue to revisit and re-enact the same nativist act and the same nativist lines in the same nativist play over and over and over again? I wonder...

I don't know why you're differing with me. I never said that what has happend over history was right or correct. Just that is was so, and thus a very typical cultural response. That doesn't make it correct.

I very much agree with your closing statement. I wonder as well. Hopefully we as a nation will figure it out in the next 200 years.

I'm not sure why most of the posters are so passionate about the propaganda they chose to side with.

As thebigspendur said, laws like this are not made to solve any problem with illegal immigration, they are meant to influence your voting.

As far as how big the illegal immigration problem is, the facts are quite a bit different from the propaganda.

And I don't think things are going to change much for as long as politics continues to trump reason.

If anyone cares to know, these are the Mexican immigration and illegal alien laws:John W. Slagle -- Mexico's Immigration Laws and Illegal Aliens
I wonder about other Nations laws concerning this issue.

Arizona has a long history of not trusting ID from hither and yon...

In Arizona's defense it is very big state with a thin population and
could quickly get more overrun than it already is. I have friends in
southern Arizona that have considered abandoning their home because
of the immigrant foot traffic. They are 20 miles from their mailbox
and 20 miles from the border....

Between economic disparity and rampant drug problems there are some
law enforcement issues to ponder. This is not new -- it was obviously
a festering problem in the '60s and it has not diminished.

In Mexico City the locals commented to me about some of the
large "invasions" that have colonized what used to be parks and
open spaces in the city. These shanty towns initially get electricity via
a mesh of extension cords miles long and water via a mesh of garden
hoses miles long....

I do not think the Arizona law will survive the courts but the constitution
mandates some things that are fully the responsibility of the federal
government but fall heavy on the border states.

Time will tell.

People tend to believe what they want to believe. As I am white and live in New England, I can't imagine this Arizona issue will affect me very much (perhaps it may stop some of the potential landscapers that work around here but I do my own work). I posted only to explain what I believe is the cause of angst over the new law. Now, this discussion has run its course and I will adopt a "wait and see" attitude.