Thread: Protesting in Wisconsin....Just the beginning?

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

I was surprised by this quote from Reagan...

That's called hypocrisy I guess. Although I believe this statement to be correct.

Not being american I'm not going to get involved in the discussion, but I just wanted to say that it really really saddens (and frightens) me to see the US sliding away towards what I see as a modern kind of fascism. And so many of you just don't see this or worse maybe, just don't care. Your country deserves better than this.

Here is my take on things.. Now I have not finished reading all the bills and budget information for my state but am currently in the process of it.

The states around this area ( Wisconsin, Indiana, Ohio, and Michigan ) have either all passed or are in the process of passing bills limiting the collective bargaining ability of Unions. The primary way they are getting these through is that due to the extreme of our two party system currently the Republicans control the government in these states.

I think also that one reason there is not more uproar about this is there is so much misinformation about public sector unions out there and with the recent history of the Auto Workers Union and how they were blamed for the downfall of Ford, GM, and Chrysler people who do not belong to one ( majority of America) they do not think it affects them. Unfortunately people forget about the history of Unions and how the working conditions and in some ways even the wages we earn today are due to them.

I don't know many public employees but I do know a lot of teachers who are also affected by these changes. The public perception ( either right or wrong) is that teachers in Michigan get free health care , free massages, and other perks due to being a teacher. This is actually true at some districts that have bargained for them but the majority of them do not get these freebies and do have to pay some of their benefits like the private sector. It all comes down to how those Districts bargained with the Teachers Union. Most teachers also spend between five hundred and a thousand dollars a year to provide materials for their classroom such as pencils, paper, crayons, and other items that you would think should be part of a schools list of items to have on hand for their teachers.

I know here schools have been hurting financially since the early to mid 90's when the Governor then decided to change how schools were funded. Originally they were funded through Property Taxes and since those went up slightly every year the Districts had a slightly larger budget most years. Their funding was then moved to being tied to the Lottery system here in Michigan and since then funding has declined every year.

I think we are in for a rough couple of years as with most things the pendulum seems to swing wide right or wide left for a bit before people finally figure out it is better to be closer to the middle. We may even see a third party emerge if things don't correct in the next couple of years.

I will stop rambling now..

I think theres going to be more and more of this over the next 2-3 years. We've all borrowed far too much money from each other (countries, banks, governments and individuals) and everyone is going to end up paying through the nose for a long time to clear all the debt off.

I fully appreciate that not everyone was recklessly borrowing, but the nature of the beast is that we're all going to be taxed until the pips squeak as a result.

Our government has recently said that public sector workers (who tend to, on average, get pretty good pensions) are going to have to work longer and get less of a pension when they retire. Asa reuslt the teachers are now talking about strike action this summer.

What ****es me off in Ohio is that Kasich is part of the reason for the short falls right now. He helped get the state to reinvest the pension funds into Lehman brothers mortgage backed securities and is now blaming the unions.

Personally, I think public employees being public servants after all should be... well.... servants. That's how they should be treated. If they don't like that let them quit and work on the outside. They should never earn more than any private employee or ever have any benefits better then any private employee. We should probably pay them the minimum wage afterall we pay their salaries.

These teachers are the biggest crybabies of them all. heck when I went to college and we needed some easy A's we'd take those Education Courses. Then they get months off with summer vacation and all the time off during the year and work short days. I think we should cut their salaries in half or when they aren't working make them clean the streets or put them on a road crew building highways.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Personally, I think...

I have to disagree They should work for free if they really love their country

There was someone quoted within the last few days on a news site who said something to the effect that it was maybe a bit surprising that it took several years longer for the government sector to catch up to the private sector in regard to economic crunch and how it has impacted so many.

The loss of rights, the loss of union power to defend workers, etc. Right, wrong or otherwise, to me the issue is very simply that the bad economy and massive debt repercussions have broken into the government sector now whereas many of us in the private sector have been affected by this for years now.

I can understand the screaming of the protesters (not the death threats), I really can, but as someone in the private sector, again, this has been a reality for many of us for some time now.

Rather than have this mentality about it: , my feeling toward the government sector is simply: "Sorry, we no longer have the resources to support those who work in government to the level that we've supported in the past. It's a reality, period.


Chris L