Thread: Wisconsin Unrecall

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

You all know when you look at it as a them against us issue you are playing into the hands of the wealthy.

Except when it comes to union propaganda. Then "us vs. them" is what you want.
The little man vs. the big company.


Tell you what - the places I have been happiest working was when I felt like my goal was in the best interest of the company (in other words, we are on the same team). I could never feel that way with a union. The union doesn't care about the success of the company - the company is, of course, "evil".
Too bad that several of the largest employers in my area had unions that were so cocky that they didn't care about the well being of the very place that signed their paychecks.
You know what we ended up with? A lot of unemployed union workers, when those employers had to close their doors.

My experience is having been downsized 4 times between 1966 and 1999 because of plant closures. 3 major unions [ Rubber Workers - Teamsters - Steel Workers ] didn't do me any good. Now I have been at a growing non union shop for 13 years and I am thriving.

In defense of the original poster, he is probably as old or older than I am and if he comes across a bit terse, it is because he/we don't have much time left to get our message across. Don't knock it until you have experienced it. The older you get, the more you become concerned about things like this. My experience speaks for itself. It's been a long haul and I would like to retire but am financially unable because of all the plant closings I have experienced over the years. I will be 68 years old shortly and expect to keep working until ?????? Three major unions weren't enough to keep me in the chips. My 3000 former co-workers will tell you the same thing......

JERRY
_____

well iam not all pro union but i will say they are the lesser of the two evils. unions can bring a business down if the business doesnt make smart decisions at the end of the day the company holds the purse strings they will only pay what they can afford. now do i agree that a auto work should make 130,000 dollars a year hell no but i guess gm could afford it at the time. theres pro's and con's in being in a union but hey if you dont like it move on to a job, where no one has your back and your at the mercy of the company. at the end of the day if your in a union or not your just a number to the company when times arent good heads will roll!

Most folks have a unrealistic view of unions and because they represent the little guy the wealthy demonize them. Unions can't save jobs or guarantee anything. They don't own the company. People complain about the auto workers and their benefits and blame the Unions so I guess the president of the Union held the CEO and Board hostage with guns at their heads to get the benefits they did. The fact is the company was making so much money back in the 70s and 80s they couldn't care less what they paid the workers. keeping the assembly line going 24/7 was the only thing that mattered. If management wanted they could have broken the Unions yet the company gets no blame only the unions.

Many Unions just provide a more equal playing field, better working conditions and fair treatment and a way to address grievances. if unions never existed well, you only have to read some history books to see how workers used to be treated. Those who think these are modern times and those things could never happen again are fools and playing right into the hands of the wealthy.

I have also been in union and non-union shops. Unions can be a double edged sword. Good that they protect the workers rights...up to a point. Sometimes they protect the lazy, the ignorant, and the just plain stupid and hateful. And good workers who do their job carry these people. I am currently in a non-union shop and it is one of the best places I have worked. I think that now unions have overstepped their bounds and the only ones benefiting from it are the unions and the lawyers.

Unions are all about controlling their members. Big Labor is nothing but just another wing of the Progressive Democrat party. Labor union's ties to organized crime has been proven time and again. Case in point, Jimmy Hoffa and the Teamsters. I personally blame organizations like the NEA for the degradation of quality education in American schools. Unions had their place in the American workforce but with all of the legislation that has passed over the years that protects the rights of the worker, they are simply obsolete. These unions shakedown their members for due and instead of fighting for their members they support politicians that will keep them in power. For an organized movement that represents about 12% of the workforce, they seem to have a lot of power. Heck, the federal employees unions do not have collective bargaining rights.

Originally Posted by MasterMason03

Unions are all about controlling their members. Big Labor is nothing but just another wing of the Progressive Democrat party. Labor union's ties to organized crime has been proven time and again. Case in point, Jimmy Hoffa and the Teamsters. I personally blame organizations like the NEA for the degradation of quality education in American schools. Unions had their place in the American workforce but with all of the legislation that has passed over the years that protects the rights of the worker, they are simply obsolete. These unions shakedown their members for due and instead of fighting for their members they support politicians that will keep them in power. For an organized movement that represents about 12% of the workforce, they seem to have a lot of power. Heck, the federal employees unions do not have collective bargaining rights.

So what you are saying is workers rights are obsolete and the Govt is going to look after them? If there is nobody to look after employees do you think employers are benevolent organizations who really care about their employees?

As far as the teamsters goes yes Hoffa was a crook and yes organized crime got their mitts into the Union and controlled things but organized crime is into many thing not just unions and while we are on the subject you how many employers and corporations are crooked in their operations and how many try and cheat their employees and customers whenever they can.

Look at the Economic meltdown. How did that happen? Corporations behaving badly.

I can assure you if you ask a teamsters member of that time yes they all knew about it but they also had great wages and benefits because of the union and actually didn't care organized crime skimmed money from union coffers.

Also do you really think if Unions represent such a small percentage of the workforce how do they wield such power? You think they influence things more that all the phony political right wing action committees bankrolled by big corporations? I realize the right wants to eliminate all unions so they can more easily take over but really now.

Give me a damn break. The GM bailout is a prime example of the greed and corruption the exemplifies Big Labor. Look at the auto plants in the south. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and BMW are all union free shops and do you ever hear about their workers being mistreated? The answer is an affirmative no.

Yes, unions had their place at one time (The Triangle Shirt factory fire). As long as unions are still in control of education, the US will continue to decline in the world standing of the quality of education.

Also, back the GM thing. The Fed interfered and assured the UAW that the status quo would be maintained at GM. The right thing would have been for GM to have broken the unions contract and start over. The legacy cost alone for GM are bleeding the company dry. I do not think we have seen the last restructuring for GM. It will most definitely happen again.

And one more thing "bigspendur". When I hear "union" I think "socialist, Marxist, and communist. These schools of thought are not compatible with representative government and free enterprise. These unions come back to the table time and again and demand more and more and what is the result. Shuttered up factories and unemployed workers because Big Labor does not represent the needs of their members but caters to the political machinations of the radical Progressive Democrat Left.

Originally Posted by MasterMason03

Give me a damn break. The GM bailout is a prime example of the greed and corruption the exemplifies Big Labor. Look at the auto plants in the south. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and BMW are all union free shops and do you ever hear about their workers being mistreated? The answer is an affirmative no.

Yes, unions had their place at one time (The Triangle Shirt factory fire). As long as unions are still in control of education, the US will continue to decline in the world standing of the quality of education.

Also, back the GM thing. The Fed interfered and assured the UAW that the status quo would be maintained at GM. The right thing would have been for GM to have broken the unions contract and start over. The legacy cost alone for GM are bleeding the company dry. I do not think we have seen the last restructuring for GM. It will most definitely happen again.

And one more thing "bigspendur". When I hear "union" I think "socialist, Marxist, and communist. These schools of thought are not compatible with representative government and free enterprise. These unions come back to the table time and again and demand more and more and what is the result. Shuttered up factories and unemployed workers because Big Labor does not represent the needs of their members but caters to the political machinations of the radical Progressive Democrat Left.

Well, I guess the American worker will just have to have lower and lower wages so he can compete with the counterpart in S.E Asia and his life style will follow suite.

Like I said no one forced GM to give in to the unions. The companies were badly mismanaged and that is why they almost went broke. yes the auto plants in the South have happy contented workers earning a fraction of what auto workers used to get.

You want us to compete with the world? Then everything will meet the common point and the standard of living in this country will plummet which is what is happening right now.

You don't think the union contracts were restructured at GM? You think they are earning what they were before and their benefits are the same?

Yes, go ahead and blame the unions for the education situation here. it has nothing to do with parents who don't give a damn or kids who are only in school because the law says they have to be or the decreasing money the schools are getting or failed strategies of using testing to gauge progress.

You say when you hear union you think socialist and marxist etc. What do you think of when you here about the increasing wealth disparity in this country and decreasing standard of living for most folks and the decreasing opportunities and all the other problems this country has? yea I know it's all those leftists and progressive policies. I'm afraid your mind is too closed to discuss this further.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Well, I guess the American worker will just have to have lower and lower wages so he can compete with the counterpart in S.E Asia and his life style will follow suite.

Not true.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Like I said no one forced GM to give in to the unions. The companies were badly mismanaged and that is why they almost went broke.

Badly mismanaged, including giving the union too much.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

You want us to compete with the world? Then everything will meet the common point and the standard of living in this country will plummet which is what is happening right now.

Also not true.