Thread: President's Speech

Originally Posted by razorjoe

Right now president obama is member of the church of christ. So he would consider himself to be religious. Now does he consider himself to be a true born again christian like it says in the holy bible John 3:3 I hope not because he sure doesn't show it.

Ok, I'll bite...please do explain...

I am not sure what you want to have explained, what the bible has to say about sin,salvation, redemption,fellowship with God the Father, what is means to be called a born again christian? Romans 5:12 shows us the nature of man which is sinful and wanting to go against God's laws. I Corinthians 15: 1-4 shows us the plain that God has for us which is salvation only through the Lord Jesus Christ's shed blood, then once we become born again we are no longer a slave to sin we can do the things that God the Father wants us to do which is to live a life according to his holy word we see in II Corithians 5:17 we can and should no longer live like everyone else in the world. Does that help?

Originally Posted by razorjoe

I do not want to start a religious fight or hurt anyones feelings. BUT, any man that meets the qualifacations to be a legal canadate for president of the United States of America can run for that office, and I think good qualifacations is a good morale man or woman that understands man's laws in this country and God's laws from the holy bible which is where alot of our common laws come from, and even better a man or woman that believes in the Lord Jesus Christ as there savior. From what people say in there post it sounds like only a atheist can be our president? Wouldn't everyone want a good morale and upstanding man or woman to be thier Leader?

See this is where you and I part ways, you just made it quite clear that you base morality on the Bible, and the Christian one at that...

How would you feel in the 2016 election if the most qualified candidate was a Hindu ???? or let's get a bit farther out there and say 2020 and he/she is practicing Voodoo ???

I find it very disturbing that you and I are going to most likely vote for the same people for many years to come for very different reasons...

I also find it very sad that so many people in this country allow their emotions to cloud their Political sense and actually vote on social issues intead of voting for the person most qualified to run the country...

From my perspective, thankfully our founding fathers had the great wisdom to separate the church from state by enacting freedom of worship for all religions, but favoritism to none. Their motivation was the personal oppression of their particular religious beliefs by the "state" religions of their prior country, and i think they righted this wrong in exactly the right way, as we are all truly free to privately worship (or not) any religion we choose. As long as our elected leaders are competent, i could give a whit whether they are religious or not, as that is a private matter. Where i get very uncomfortable however, is when politicians start to cross this line and publicize their personal religious beliefs to matters regarding the state and my kids classroom, as this starts us down the path of losing our religious freedom by creating a "state'' religion. No need to relive and relearn the hard lesson already provided by our founders...

Originally Posted by razorjoe

Right now president obama is member of the church of christ. So he would consider himself to be religious. Now does he consider himself to be a true born again christian like it says in the holy bible John 3:3 I hope not because he sure doesn't show it.

Presidents G.W. Bush and Jimmy Carter considered themselves 'born again christians'. Were they great presidents, or the greatest presidents?

Originally Posted by razorjoe

Wouldn't everyone want a good morale and upstanding man or woman to be thier Leader?

A person's morale has nothing to do with whether they believe in Jesus Christ the way you do or don't. And a moral person doesn't mean a good leader - read your history, plenty of monsters who have been excellent leaders for their country and the overal progress of the world.

Originally Posted by razorjoe

........I think good qualifacations is a good morale man or woman that understands man's laws in this country and God's laws from the holy bible which is where alot of our common laws come from, and even better a man or woman that believes in the Lord Jesus Christ as there savior. From what people say in there post it sounds like only a atheist can be our president? Wouldn't everyone want a good morale and upstanding man or woman to be thier Leader?

I can see where you are coming from with this, but I do take a slight bit of offense to it.
Are you saying there are something wrong with the morals of all other than those who choose to follow Jesus?
I sure hope not.
There are bad seeds and there are upstanding people everywhere in this world, and their religious believes have very little to do with that.
IMHO.

Originally Posted by razorjoe View Post
........I think good qualifacations is a good morale man or woman that understands man's laws in this country and God's laws from the holy bible which is where alot of our common laws come from, and even better a man or woman that believes in the Lord Jesus Christ as there savior. From what people say in there post it sounds like only a atheist can be our president? Wouldn't everyone want a good morale and upstanding man or woman to be thier Leader?

So, in your opinion, none of these people have good moral's and have done nothing to strengthen society ???

List of atheists in science and technology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of atheist philosophers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of atheist activists and educators - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Im sorry, not trying to sound to snarky, but the casual ignorance with painting people that might not believe in the same god (out of thousands mind you) that you do as automatically immoral and somehow detrimental to society is infuriating.

If your religion grounds you and helps you personally with your moral's, thats great, but insisting that everyone else needs to do the same, especially on the level of creating/modifying federal law based on that is where the issue lies, because like you said your self, this is not a theocracy.

all I can say is wow....

Christianity does not make you just or Morale....never has never will. Look at all the horrible things done through out history that have been done in Gods name. Look at the westboro baptist church and its hate filled message. Did Jesus preach hate? if so I missed that day. It is the combination of experience and education along with empathy that allow humans to decide for themselves what is right and what is wrong. The bible is a survival guide for human beings 2000+ years ago. And the New Testiment was not written by a single person that actually had conversations with Christ. Does this mean I do not believe in God? no I do, but in a vastly different way. Show me a creationist and I will show you someone drinking what a snake oil salesman sold them.

when people take their ego's out of the equation much more can be accomplished in a much more peaceful manner.

The bible can be a good source of morality when used with a modicum of common sense.
It is however not the ultimate source (or rather the only source) of good morals. Various other religious books can be used in the same way. Even without religious writings, people can have a decent moral compass.

I'll just take myself as an example. Before I became a Christian, I was a decent, caring, empathic human being with a strong moral compass. Becoming a Christian has not really made me change the practical things I do or the opinions I hold, in terms of morality. I am still that same man. Only now I can put the bible next to my opinions and say 'that matches pretty well with where I was at'.

So I call BS on the premise that you need the bible to give you a moral compass, or the idea that using the bible gives the person a better moral compass than a non believer. The bible is a tool. Like any tool it can be used for good and bad. The West Borough morons are a fine example of a bad example.

Originally Posted by Bruno

The bible can be a good source of morality when used with a modicum of common sense.
It is however not the ultimate source (or rather the only source) of good morals. Various other religious books can be used in the same way. Even without religious writings, people can have a decent moral compass.

I'll just take myself as an example. Before I became a Christian, I was a decent, caring, empathic human being with a strong moral compass. Becoming a Christian has not really made me change the practical things I do or the opinions I hold, in terms of morality. I am still that same man. Only now I can put the bible next to my opinions and say 'that matches pretty well with where I was at'.

So I call BS on the premise that you need the bible to give you a moral compass, or the idea that using the bible gives the person a better moral compass than a non believer. The bible is a tool. Like any tool it can be used for good and bad. The West Borough morons are a fine example of a bad example.

I'll take odds that before you were a "Christian"; that those moral standards of decency, empathy and a strong North indicator on that "moral compass" of yours, came from sources,ie. parents and other individuals that learned from the Bible.

Infants are born with innocence; not common sense, caring, empathy or hate.

The Bible can be considered a tool or better yet a "source"; Lets give the Bible it's due.

Just my thoughts, from a man who has not entered a church in decades, but knows the power of that book.