Thread: Whats your opinion on automatic weapons?

Originally Posted by gssixgun

There is an old saying about a weapon that I have always liked


A gun in my hand is for defense, a gun in your hand is a threat...

Chew on that one for a bit

Different countries have different views on how to deal with gun violence. As said, it's legal not illegal guns that kill here almost 100% cases where hand gun involved. Luckily such cases are very rare. And it is almost always used by either legal owner or his/her family members.

I'd like to see this whole killing thing as a cultural issue too. Maybe i'm wrong. Using violence as a means to get what you want is not so popular choice here, no matter if you 'good' or 'bad' guy. Of course it happens but getting robbed here makes you a front page for weeks.
As far as i've traveled in most eastern European countries (dangerous places, they say), Spain or London i've never been afraid for my safety nor have never experienced that some would attack me or my wife, be it day or night, downtown, suburb or ghetto.

Kids (me back then included) were and still are raised to believe in some older (probably Scandinavian) traditions, older than Christianity here, that all life is sacred. All life. Now do whatever you need to do to protect life, even kill if it is the only way, but never harm anyone or anything just because you can do it. If you see a rat in your garden, kill and get rid of it but if you see it in the forest, then let it be. Hunt if you need to eat but not for fun because those animals have a value too.
I remember the old timers talking about the times of war, specially when they were drunk. They were not shocked only because their life had been in danger but because they had killed too. They never said that killing, even for the right cause was great. For most i know, they hated such times.

I can understand that in a society where everyone is armed and everyone is possible threat, it is important to be ready and prepared, but luckily we are not that far yet. Hope we never will.

There has been some discussion that US cities are not safe because of high homicide rates. I have looked at this issue professionally in a major US city. Most people living in US cities are OK, even the sections most affected by crime. I have travelled extensively unarmed and unescorted throughout this major city for 30 years and have never been assaulted or robbed. Rarely, I have received veiled threats from persons who did not like the message that I had to give them. My staff has also rarely experienced violence or threats while on the job.

Most sections of the citiy evaluated are OK, but there are some areas (about 15 % of the city's land area) where there is a homicide rate disparity. In the city studied, 57 % of the city's homicides occurred where only 12 % of the city's population lives. The homicides occurring in the high crime areas (1.1 % of the population for the US state where the city is located) comprised about 20 percent of all homicides occurring in that state during the period evaluated. However, the city homicide rate outside the high crime sections (about 85 percent of the city) is similar to the US average. The city evaluated has a minority population slightly greater than 50 %. Therefore most of the city's minority population lives in the areas with a low homicide rate similar to the US average.

@Sheajohnw

This is what is actually hard for most to understand if you take the urban blight out of the Crime Stats for the US, I am quite sure that we would be at or below the top five Countries in the world for Gun crime ...

Hmmmm I wonder if that stat is out there

Originally Posted by Birnando

You know, I would totally agree with you on the fact that gun control will not be able to stop any and all that want to commit such acts as Breivik did.
What seems to be the big difference between the two sides in this discussion is to what, if any, extent it would actually help in reducing murders by guns.

Violence breeds violence, and in a lot of cases, I will feel with some conviction that the very presence of a gun did escalate something that would have had a totally different outcome had it not been so.
Pure speculations on my part, but then again, so is basically anyone's opinion in a matter as complex as this.

Learned men from all parts of the world have tried to find a simple answer, the one thruth about guns and the way to control mis-use, and there seems like little consensus have been reached.

The evidence out there points in all kinds of directions, and for any of us to claim with certainty what works and what doesn't is, well, not truly founded in the available facts. All of those facts.
Regardless of how many capital letters one use...

Catch-phrases from manufacturers, retailers and lobbyists may be cool and all, but they do not belong in an adult discussion on a serious matter like this.

And yes, you are of course right, our statistics for 2011 will look ugly.
This wacko used two approaches to reach his goals, both by using the system, doing some serious planning and what he was able to legally obtain.
In that light, he is not matched by this one dude in Oklahoma called Timothy Mcveigh or something like that.

Naturally, restrictions on obtaining the stuff needed for making weapons like that have been tighted even further in Norway.
Will it help? Who knows, only time will tell..

Luckily though, our society are pretty much back to normal now, and the gun related crimes are down to an even lower count than before that event.

Just as an info, our stats usually lies around 0.8-0.9 per 100.000, while the US one is slightly short of 6.

I am going to agree that there is no silver bullet but a multi faceted approach works best as there are more contributing factors than guns alone. The statistics that a quick search yielded was a UNODC spread sheet listing homicides by gun per capita which showed Norway (2007) at 0.1, Canada (2009) at 0.5 and the USA (2009) at 3.0. All three countries had higher homicide rates if you took into account all homicides no matter the method used. So I am guessing your 0.8-0.9 rate is for all homicides committed. Still an extremely low rate. My only take away is that most murders are done without guns by another means. Anyway for the most part we are in agreement but I just don't like the fixation on the gun aspect alone with virtually no attention paid to the other possibly more important causes.

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

Anyway for the most part we are in agreement but I just don't like the fixation on the gun aspect alone with virtually no attention paid to the other possibly more important causes.

Bob

I would say that we are in agreement on that aspect as well.
There is focus on the guns, the mere tools, in this thread, and in the debate as a whole.
That is not addressing the whole issue of gun related murders and crimes, therefore it will never bee the whole answer either.

I would like to add that we as people want to be free and we want the rights to pursue our own freedom and happiness. We go down a slippery slope when governments and others start telling us what we can and can not have, do, or handle on our own. Because one or a few people are irresponsible, does that mean everyone must be punished or limited. Firearms are only one of the many things in life governments would like to control. It is up to each person to make the right choices. I have been around guns my entire life, and I respect the power they can give a person. I think everyone will agree it is impossible to control every other persons actions. If all gun were illegal in say the US then drug dealers, militant groups, People in general will get them one way or another. Hell you can make a gun from plans off the internet. We have free will, and unfortunately there are stupid people in the world.

To answer the topic question automatic means a firearm will cycle the round/bullet each time you pull the trigger. there is FULL AUTO (hold the trigger and all bullets are fired until gone or trigger is released) and SEMI-AUTO (one shot for each pull of the trigger).
Some ignorant to firearms people say "shotguns are the only thing we should be able to have" There are many shotguns that are semi-auto just like a handgun or AR-15 rifle. There is not one type of rifle or pistol that is less deadly than any other.

Not sure who said this first, but "GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE; PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE"

Shifting gears here:

This is most interesting

Stats about all US cities - real estate, relocation info, crime, house prices, cost of living, races, home value estimator, recent sales, income, photos, schools, maps, weather, neighborhoods, and more

This has some very enlighting data if you care to punch in where you live, sorry looks to be US only


BTW to my EU friends if you look at the crime rate where I live, you guys are down right dangerous in comparison I know I know Apples to Apples Glen hehehe

Originally Posted by Groth

I would like to add that we as people want to be free and we want the rights to pursue our own freedom and happiness. We go down a slippery slope when governments and others start telling us what we can and can not have, do, or handle on our own. Because one or a few people are irresponsible, does that mean everyone must be punished or limited. Firearms are only one of the many things in life governments would like to control. It is up to each person to make the right choices. I have been around guns my entire life, and I respect the power they can give a person. I think everyone will agree it is impossible to control every other persons actions. If all gun were illegal in say the US then drug dealers, militant groups, People in general will get them one way or another. Hell you can make a gun from plans off the internet. We have free will, and unfortunately there are stupid people in the world.

To answer the topic question automatic means a firearm will cycle the round/bullet each time you pull the trigger. there is FULL AUTO (hold the trigger and all bullets are fired until gone or trigger is released) and SEMI-AUTO (one shot for each pull of the trigger).
Some ignorant to firearms people say "shotguns are the only thing we should be able to have" There are many shotguns that are semi-auto just like a handgun or AR-15 rifle. There is not one type of rifle or pistol that is less deadly than any other.

Not sure who said this first, but "GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE; PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE"

I agree and I get really ticked off when the State says I can't drive my exotic sports car down the interstate at 185 MPH. I mean swerving in and out of traffic at that speed is fun. Too bad if the folks on the road panic and cause an accident and kill each other. No skin off my nose. I also still want to know why I can't buy my own thermo-nuclear weapon. I promise I won't set it off except when I'm drunk of course and not responsible.

Kids have been making homemade guns since the 1950s at least. We called them zip guns. But they were 22s and single shot and not accurate and after using one you had to run fast because the opposing gang members would have got you and beat you to death for using it on one of their members.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I agree and I get really ticked off when the State says I can't drive my exotic sports car down the interstate at 185 MPH. I mean swerving in and out of traffic at that speed is fun. Too bad if the folks on the road panic and cause an accident and kill each other. No skin off my nose. I also still want to know why I can't buy my own thermo-nuclear weapon. I promise I won't set it off except when I'm drunk of course and not responsible.

Kids have been making homemade guns since the 1950s at least. We called them zip guns. But they were 22s and single shot and not accurate and after using one you had to run fast because the opposing gang members would have got you and beat you to death for using it on one of their members.

There are many folks that do drive 100+ on the freeways. Does this mean our cars should not be able to go over 70 mph, (70 MPH is the fastest on roads in California why I'm using 70MPH), when we buy them new from the factory? There should be no importation of auto parts to allow us to modify our vehicles to go any faster? Of coarse the government, police, and military will need faster vehicles, but not the average Joe. How would people react to such a limitation on our vehicles speed? There is no need to go any faster as the laws say we can not.

Limit the speed on a family car. Drive in the mountains on a 2 lane road. The truck behind you loses it's brakes. You get squashed because your car won't go fast enough to stay out of his way.