Thread: Whats your opinion on automatic weapons?

Originally Posted by Martin103

In light of another massacre in the us, what your opinion on the right to bear automatic weapons like the ak47 and ar15?

I realize this is a very controversial subject. Gun control is NEVER the answer in my opinion. Laws only do 1 thing, they tell law abiding people what they can and can't do. Criminals do NOT follow laws and have no problems breaking them (look at the ever growing prison population). Crack, Meth, Cocaine, Heroine, etc are all illegal, yet EVERY day people are making it, selling it (to people of all ages, even kids), and using it and it is AGAINST THE LAW. These drugs kill far more people than this guy did, and where have the laws gotten us on this? I'm not a drug user, nor am I proposing the legalization of them, just saying that making more Laws does NOT deter CRIMINALS, they only apply to people inside the norm. Gun Control is not the answer in my opinion, unless of course you mean keeping the front site on target.

Originally Posted by BobH

At least you had a buy back. We did not have that here when that happened.

Bob

Jack boot Johnny would have had a great deal of trouble on his hands if he didn't pay us. As it was, the only people who got a fair price for firearms were gun shop owners and the people running the show, who skimmed handed in firearms and sold them at other collection centres. There was a lot of criminal activity going on by those running the whole show, at the expense of every tax paying Australian.


Mick

Originally Posted by MickR

Jack boot Johnny would have had a great deal of trouble on his hands if he didn't pay us. As it was, the only people who got a fair price for firearms were gun shop owners and the people running the show, who skimmed handed in firearms and sold them at other collection centres. There was a lot of criminal activity going on by those running the whole show, at the expense of every tax paying Australian.


Mick

I am sure the same went on here when the amnesties happened. The politicians here knew us Canucks were more sheepish than you Ozzies, all you mostly heard here was the braying of sheep as the guns were turned in with no compensation. Mind you I would bet there were a few hold outs that just stashed them or destroyed their guns themselves to make sure nobody profited from their loss. Kind of curious that certain English speaking countries went through roughly the same process within a few years of each other.

There is a humorous side to gun registration though. We had a club member who had a 44 mag pistol blow up for some reason. He retrieved the bits and pieces. The cylinder had 3 chambers blown out, the top strap of the frame was MIA but the barrel looked like it could be salvaged. When another member bought his handguns this wreck was thrown in as part of the deal for free. The new owner was told by the local firearms registrar the he would have to keep the wreck registered. We all had a good laugh at that one.

Bob

Originally Posted by Wullie

I've been to the UK. I enjoyed every second of it. However, I was informed one evening in Dublin, that I was going the "wrong" direction. I was informed that if I continued my journey in the direction I was headed that I would more than likely get robbed and beaten. I took the advice and changed my course. I'm not stupid enough to think that EVERYTHING is rosy anywhere.

If you were in Dublin and thought you were in the UK it's no wonder someone had to point you in the right direction - Dublin is in Ireland which is a separate country. The real point however, is that there was little risk of you being shot in Dublin, or London or any other European capital. Can you say the same about the down town areas of major US cities? This is a genuine question - I don't presume to know the answer.

Originally Posted by UKRob

If you were in Dublin and thought you were in the UK it's no wonder someone had to point you in the right direction - Dublin is in Ireland which is a separate country. The real point however, is that there was little risk of you being shot in Dublin, or London or any other European capital. Can you say the same about the down town areas of major US cities? This is a genuine question - I don't presume to know the answer.

I was briefly stationed in Philadelphia (the City of Brotherly Love). About 8 of us left the base and started walking downtown. We had only traveled a few blocks when a policeman rode up on a horse and pointed at the only black in the group. He said, "he will make it downtown. The rest of you better take the subway." We took his advice. About a month later several of us were assaulted in Penn Center as we tried to make our way to the underground ice skating rink. About an hour later the police with dogs descended on the young thugs and handcuffed them to the railing above the rink. I don't know what one of the kids said, but a cop decked him. The entire rink full of people stopped skating and started to clap.

To this day that is the only city where I've been physically attacked.

Originally Posted by UKRob

If you were in Dublin and thought you were in the UK it's no wonder someone had to point you in the right direction - Dublin is in Ireland which is a separate country. The real point however, is that there was little risk of you being shot in Dublin, or London or any other European capital. Can you say the same about the down town areas of major US cities? This is a genuine question - I don't presume to know the answer.

Unless you look Irish and there's an armed Englishman about. You'll probably be shot then...Oh hang on, Dublin's already been subdued by force of arms a long time ago hasn't it?! It's Belfast I be tinkin' about to be sure.


Mick

We were in Belfast years ago and although the people were very friendly you certainly got that uneasy feeling. Dublin on OTH, did not give us that same uneasy feeling. I also recall being in the Hanover HBF, main train station, and watching a younger blond white faced male arguing loudly with a younger dark haired darker complexioned male. The blondie pulled what appeared to be a handgun, jacked the slide back and began chasing the the other fellow around the crowded main train station in the middle of the day. I was only 20 feet away and could not determine at that distance if the pistol was fake or real. Regardless, that is grounds enough over here to be shot by a cop. Big European cities have their problems too irrespective of strict gun controls there. The use of fake firearms in the commission of a crime carry similar if not the same penalties over here.

Bob

Originally Posted by MickR

Unless you look Irish and there's an armed Englishman about. You'll probably be shot then...Oh hang on, Dublin's already been subdued by force of arms a long time ago hasn't it?! It's Belfast I be tinkin' about to be sure.


Mick

This thread contains some pretty crass remarks from you but this is by far the worst. I really don't think your comments are justified so intend to report them to the moderators.

Originally Posted by BobH

I will agree with you that gun control does work but only to a certain point after which it does little more. There is a point of diminishing returns for everything. Even in a country such as yours with an extremely high standard of living and extremely tight gun control regulations you had an horrific incident take place. I don't think any country could have done more to prevent that yet it still happened. Largely because people do go insane and commit such acts and there is not much that can be done about it. Also consider that Norway has a population of roughly 5 million and the US has a population of roughly 313 million. No single such incident, that I have been able to find, in the US has had such a high death count either. I am not good at statistics but seems to me there would had to have been about 62 similar such incidents in the US for the US to equal Norway in the mass murder by an insane gunman category. That is just for this one type of incident and things may very well be different in your garden variety homicides and suicides by firearms, not to mention deaths by accidental discharges too. Point is that no matter what you do or don't do for deterrents these acts of mass murder by an insane person cannot be guarded against 100% successfully.

Bob

You know, I would totally agree with you on the fact that gun control will not be able to stop any and all that want to commit such acts as Breivik did.
What seems to be the big difference between the two sides in this discussion is to what, if any, extent it would actually help in reducing murders by guns.

Violence breeds violence, and in a lot of cases, I will feel with some conviction that the very presence of a gun did escalate something that would have had a totally different outcome had it not been so.
Pure speculations on my part, but then again, so is basically anyone's opinion in a matter as complex as this.

Learned men from all parts of the world have tried to find a simple answer, the one thruth about guns and the way to control mis-use, and there seems like little consensus have been reached.

The evidence out there points in all kinds of directions, and for any of us to claim with certainty what works and what doesn't is, well, not truly founded in the available facts. All of those facts.
Regardless of how many capital letters one use...

Catch-phrases from manufacturers, retailers and lobbyists may be cool and all, but they do not belong in an adult discussion on a serious matter like this.

And yes, you are of course right, our statistics for 2011 will look ugly.
This wacko used two approaches to reach his goals, both by using the system, doing some serious planning and what he was able to legally obtain.
In that light, he is not matched by this one dude in Oklahoma called Timothy Mcveigh or something like that.

Naturally, restrictions on obtaining the stuff needed for making weapons like that have been tighted even further in Norway.
Will it help? Who knows, only time will tell..

Luckily though, our society are pretty much back to normal now, and the gun related crimes are down to an even lower count than before that event.

Just as an info, our stats usually lies around 0.8-0.9 per 100.000, while the US one is slightly short of 6.

There is an old saying about a weapon that I have always liked


A gun in my hand is for defense, a gun in your hand is a threat...

Chew on that one for a bit