Thread: Whats your opinion on automatic weapons?

Off course guns do not kill by itself but they make killing a lot easier. The wacko in Denver couldn't have done the same amount of death count with bare hands or even with knife. Guns made it all possible.

It is another fact that madman always finds the way to make his deed if he/she really wants to do it, and weapons make it easy. Give him better and more effective weapons and it is even easier. I do not know but it would be difficult and risky to try to kill someone in a public with just bare hands. Probably the person in question (and any witness) would have something to say about it too.
Now take a knife and you can easily kill one or two before people stop you and beat the hell out of you. Oh no, such act still needs too much guts and changes to failure are high.
hand guns make things easier and if you get a rifle, even automatic, then you can do a lot of damage, even from a distance. You do not even need to get too close to victim to kill him. Like we saw in Utoya and Denver.

I guess that in society where everyone is armed, taking guns away is not an answer. I do not know what you should do.
But in societies where guns are still rare, restricting is the good way to prevent killings, made by shooting, in the future. Of course those who shoot as a hobby are first to nail me, but i think it is a small price if even one such accident can be prevented in the future.
That is also how it works here nowadays. In general, only authorities like army, police and frontal guard are armed, but even those have no right to carry gun when off duty. Of course we have still those who shoot as a hobby but it has become very difficult to get 9mm or even .22. getting a rifle for hunting is still relatively easy, but to get a hunter's license is not automatic either. Full automatics for civilians are banned.

Originally Posted by Sailor

Off course guns do not kill by itself but they make killing a lot easier. The wacko in Denver couldn't have done the same amount of death count with bare hands or even with knife. Guns made it all possible.

It is another fact that madman always finds the way to make his deed if he/she really wants to do it, and weapons make it easy. Give him better and more effective weapons and it is even easier. I do not know but it would be difficult and risky to try to kill someone in a public with just bare hands. Probably the person in question (and any witness) would have something to say about it too.
Now take a knife and you can easily kill one or two before people stop you and beat the hell out of you. Oh no, such act still needs too much guts and changes to failure are high.
hand guns make things easier and if you get a rifle, even automatic, then you can do a lot of damage, even from a distance. You do not even need to get too close to victim to kill him. Like we saw in Utoya and Denver.

I guess that in society where everyone is armed, taking guns away is not an answer. I do not know what you should do.
But in societies where guns are still rare, restricting is the good way to prevent killings, made by shooting, in the future. Of course those who shoot as a hobby are first to nail me, but i think it is a small price if even one such accident can be prevented in the future.
That is also how it works here nowadays. In general, only authorities like army, police and frontal guard are armed, but even those have no right to carry gun when off duty. Of course we have still those who shoot as a hobby but it has become very difficult to get 9mm or even .22. getting a rifle for hunting is still relatively easy, but to get a hunter's license is not automatic either. Full automatics for civilians are banned.

Near 3000 were killed with just Box Cutters on 9/11, just pointing out the facts, the mind is the most dangerous weapon always has been...

Originally Posted by Groth

There are many folks that do drive 100+ on the freeways. Does this mean our cars should not be able to go over 70 mph, (70 MPH is the fastest on roads in California why I'm using 70MPH), when we buy them new from the factory? There should be no importation of auto parts to allow us to modify our vehicles to go any faster? Of coarse the government, police, and military will need faster vehicles, but not the average Joe. How would people react to such a limitation on our vehicles speed? There is no need to go any faster as the laws say we can not.

I find it funny to use speed regulation as an example of gun laws. I remember in 1979, they passed a law that forced auto makers to sell cars, or motorcycles, with speedometers that only went up to 85 mph. They also had the magic "55" highlighted in some way. In 1981, they realized it was doing no good. Laws only work for those who recognize them and heed their rule. You will never stop a bad person from doing others harm if that is what they want. Where there's a will, there's a way, even if the will is ill. You can pass all the laws you want, the only ones you will stop are the law abiding people. You can hope that laws will make it harder to obtain guns or ammo, or minimize their ability to do harm. Do I have an answer, no. Do you, no. But we do have ideas, and if we can exchange ideas, leaving out emotion, we can get closer to making things better. This board is unique, it brings together views from a World wide stage.

I have guns. From the opinions of some around here, I have too much ammo. I abide by the rules of law. The only people who should worry about me, are those who would come here with intent to do me or my family harm. And should that time ever come, I don't want to be hindered in my efforts to defend my right to live by some dumb ass law that the bad guy coming to hurt me is ignoring! Is there ANY reason for me to own an AR-15 with two 30 round clips taped together? Many of you would say, no. But, what about the 5 gang bangers that are sent on a hit and get my address by mistake. Far fetched, sure. Improbable, sure. Impossible, no. Don't limit my ability to do everything in my power to protect myself.

I'm getting too wound up, it's lunch time. I need to go eat and get away from this board for a while.

I found some meat in the freezer, not sure what it is, Elk, maybe. Or I could go with some wild boar sausage over rice? Anyway, catch ya later, donv

Originally Posted by Sailor

In general, only authorities like army, police and frontal guard are armed, but even those have no right to carry gun when off duty. Of course we have still those who shoot as a hobby but it has become very difficult to get 9mm or even .22. getting a rifle for hunting is still relatively easy, but to get a hunter's license is not automatic either. Full automatics for civilians are banned.

And include, of course, criminals who don't giva a s##t about what's legal or not. And if you, or anyone else, is unfortunate enough to be either confronted by one of those, or in a situation involving an armed criminal, you may wish you had the ability to defend yourself with more than just your bare hands. In a world where firearms are a fact of life, it is wicked and callous to place law abiding citizens at the mercy of armed thugs who could not care less about laws and life.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Near 3000 were killed with just Box Cutters on 9/11, just pointing out the facts, the mind is the most dangerous weapon always has been...

You are right of course. Guns do not kill alone, but they make it much easier. A sicko also always finds the way but i do not want to give him tools that are made just for that: taking away someone's life.
Not all sick persons are not allowed to get a gun here but for some reason not all hijack planes instead. You cannot vote from the rooftop with a knife, but with pistol or rifle you can. A madman can kill one or two persons in a crowd with a knife. With auto rifle his death count will be higher, and he doesn't even get close to that crowd to start rock.

As said, these are not simple questions. I have no answer. I am not anti-gun person, i have my own (although i do not keep them home, my wife would kill me lol). I still wouldn't want to see every people armed. The death toll would be terrible.

Something is wrong with the modern culture too. You see movies where they praise violence and use it as the only way to solve your problems. People get saturated by violence. Not all take them as an example but sadly some people do. I'm all sick and tired of movies where hero gets beaten and finally saves the world/family/country by killing those bad guys. It is against everything i've learned about life. Maybe sometimes using violence is essential but glorifying such act is no way to make the world safer in the future. As i said before, all life is sacred, yet i have no sympathy for those who try to hurt us too.
I do know the problem but i do not know the answer. What works here might not work there and vice versa.

I've actually read the entire thread, and feel I can skip my novel for the month now. Most of what I'm seeing is valid arguments made, by both sides, to people on the oposite side of a belief.

I'm against making the gun control laws any stricter until we have at least a working system for enforcing what we already have. Adding laws that aren't enforced seem unlikely to have any effect at all.

I also believe that people who enjoy target shooting or hunting should be able to do so, in general if you aren't hurting anyone, I'm not particularly worried about what you are doing.

I do not own a gun because I've never felt I needed one, and I can't really stand loud noises. I wouldn't carry one simply because I wouldn't want to be the one who escalated a confrontation ot that point, having one alone may be enough to escalate and I'd rather not risk it. That said, I consider it a personal choice not something to force on everyone.

I fear that Terry Pratchet may have been right with his armed bar story, summed up with everyone is polite at first, then someone accidently takes a sip from the wrong beer and next thing you know you are picking the noses out of the beer nuts.

I personally believe I'm roughly as neutral on this as I can be, but I doubt anyone considers themselves opinionated.

I think the correct thing to do, so as not to make more laws being unenforced is to make crimes commited with guns carry much stiffer penalties. Double or more for sentences if the criminal HAS a gun, possibly even up to life in the event of injury.

That way (life sentences) people who want guns but not to hurt anyone aren't punished for the actions someone else took, and people who misuse guns won't do it again.

I know this wouldn't do anything for the victims, but I do know that "Bad cases make bad law."
This isn't because "Gun-Nuts" don't care about anyone's safety, or because "Pacifistic Gun Takers" want people to be dis-armed and unhappy. It's because people are people, and such events make us think with their guts instead of our heads.

Just rambling thoughts brought into my head by this thread, please feel free to ignore if you choose.

Originally Posted by honedright

And include, of course, criminals who don't giva a s##t about what's legal or not. And if you, or anyone else, is unfortunate enough to be either confronted by one of those, or in a situation involving an armed criminal, you may wish you had the ability to defend yourself with more than just your bare hands. In a world where firearms are a fact of life, it is wicked and callous to place law abiding citizens at the mercy of armed thugs who could not care less about laws and life.

You live in a different place. There is no way that i would ever face armed criminals here. Maybe last time someone was robbed with a gun was maybe 30 years ago (i have no statistics here right now). Last time a father killed his kids and himself with a pistol was 2 months ago. Last time a police was shot in a line of duty was 1997, and even then the shooter was foreigner.

As from my experiences in most eastern/western European countries is that i have never been experienced threat of any kind, be it night, day, downtown or suburb, and some of these places were no no, i was told. Bs, i think.
I have been experienced violence in Kosova and some of the other places, but i was in my deployment, not tourist.
I find it sort of strange how there could be places in western nation where citizen wouldn't be safe to go. We have no such places. Of course we have street violence but it is very very rare and those kids usually do not even try to use violence. Only bad mouth. Such a losers.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Near 3000 were killed with just Box Cutters on 9/11, just pointing out the facts, the mind is the most dangerous weapon always has been...

Very true.

So if I am understanding the argument correctly, if I point a gun at your head, and you point a gun at mine, both you and I can rest easy in perfect safety from each other? lol!

So how does that logic translate to the movie going public in the US? Should the projectionist room have a machine gun post mounted next to the projector? Should ushers have a big iron on their hips? Should the purchase of a large popcorn come with a free sawn-off shotgun? Would you feel safer then?

There is another way of course: if I don't point a gun at your head, and you don't point a gun at mine, both you and I can rest easy in perfect safety from one another! Just because something is hard to do, doesn't make it impossible to do. In fact, it is my understanding that you do already have gun control at certain levels: high schools, airplanes, jails. If you can implement and enforce it under some situations, why not under all?

Don't get me wrong, I am a realist. I know the US will never implement gun control. In fact, I am pretty sure we all know that. However, I merely wish to point out that your arguments hold no water with me as I live a quite peaceful life in a country with gun control laws.

James.

Originally Posted by Sailor

You live in a different place. There is no way that i would ever face armed criminals here. Maybe last time someone was robbed with a gun was maybe 30 years ago (i have no statistics here right now). Last time a father killed his kids and himself with a pistol was 2 months ago. Last time a police was shot in a line of duty was 1997, and even then the shooter was foreigner.

As from my experiences in most eastern/western European countries is that i have never been experienced threat of any kind, be it night, day, downtown or suburb, and some of these places were no no, i was told. Bs, i think.
I have been experienced violence in Kosova and some of the other places, but i was in my deployment, not tourist.
I find it sort of strange how there could be places in western nation where citizen wouldn't be safe to go. We have no such places. Of course we have street violence but it is very very rare and those kids usually do not even try to use violence. Only bad mouth. Such a losers.

I think to compare a country like Finland to the US is comparing apples and oranges. I am completely ignorant to what's happening in Finland, but I think the US population of 300 million, poverty, and education play a larger role in the gun violence her in the US.