Thread: What the Heck...For Real?!?!

Originally Posted by Cangooner

I'm just finding it slightly odd that folks are seeing unfettered access to peanut butter as sort of a line across which we shall not cross. Give me peanut butter or give me death!

Is eating something other than a PB sammie at lunch really *that* great a societal change? Don't get me wrong: I love peanuts and peanut butter. But would I ever insist on eating it in a location away from my home where doing so could kill someone? No, I wouldn't. And if someone told me that a child in a school had a serious peanut allergy, I would do everything in my power to ensure that I did not bring anything to the school that could cause that child harm.

Peanut butter is an example, not the line drawn. I have a good friend that is allergic to Poinsettias.


Should we remove them from all holiday festivities around the world because of him?

Where do we draw the line?

Tim

If your friend gets seriously ill and is able to prove it is due to lack of adequate care on the behalf of the authorities in charge, then you'd better believe those plants would have to be removed. Money talks.

James.

I mean OK, that is unrealistic, but I am sure you get the point. All it takes is enough lawsuits of sufficient monetary payout and all of a sudden it become economical for the Education Department to start building peanut-free schools.

James.

Originally Posted by 32t

Peanut butter is an example, not the line drawn. I have a good friend that is allergic to Poinsettias.


Should we remove them from all holiday festivities around the world because of him?

Where do we draw the line?

Tim

I think this might be comparing apples and oranges here.

I am saying that it is reasonable and responsible not to expose children to substances that can cause them serious harm while in school.

Outside of the school, it is perfectly reasonable for everyone to go about their lives normally, and for the parents of the child and the child him/herself to learn to deal with the world at large and to act accordingly. In your friend's case, I would certainly expect that had he been aware of this allergy while at school, the school should absolutely have taken steps to protect him as well if it were a serious allergy. I am unaware of the nature of Poinsettia allergies and so do not know what steps would have been necessary to protect him.

Is it a potentially fatal allergy? Can a reaction be triggered by 2nd or 3rd-hand exposure in the way peanut allergies can be? If the answer to both questions is yes, then I do believe the responsible thing would be for that school (not society at large) not to have Poinsettias in the school as long as that student was present. And similarly, outside the school it would have been up to him and his folks to deal with the wider world. If the answer to those two questions is no, then as far as I'm concerned there is no need for action. In a previous post I mentioned that I too have allergies, and that some of them are quite severe. However, none of them will kill me, so I neither seek nor require anyone else to change to accommodate me.

But for things that can kill kids, I'm happy to make changes to my life.

Anyway... as an aside... because of the nature of my current work (which no, I won't get into here) I am particularly sensitive to the welfare of children at schools. So I may be getting a little overzealous on this front. No offence intended to anyone.

Originally Posted by 32t

Peanut butter is an example, not the line drawn. I have a good friend that is allergic to Poinsettias.


Should we remove them from all holiday festivities around the world because of him?

Where do we draw the line?

Tim

I bet you could draw a line pretty easy if the shoe were on your foot.

For anyone who knows a kid/child that has a food allergy that could lead to death, they have something called a 504 plan, it does not just consider handicaps or learning disabilities, it includes food allergies. I believe schools must comply with these request if a parent or parents submit one. I forget at this point who all reviews this plan, it's either accepted or not. Once submitted an action plan is made, it get's tweaked, until everyone is happy (this is a short and sweet version). I have to say personalities play a huge role in what happens at a school and what does not. My daughters first year in school the principal was horrible, and made everything very difficult, the school has a new principal now and thing's have gone very smoothly. My wife and me feel more at ease, we know if she's exposed to peanuts/tree nuts, that everyone knows what actions need to take place. I'm not sure why so many people are so offended by these allergies, I can tell you if your kid had one you'd sing a different tune. So anyway I just wanted to put that information out there about the 504 plan, if you know someone that has a kid with food allergies that can have a reaction like Anaphylaxis it's worth researching. Also FAAN is a great resource. This isn't directed at anyone, just some information. I know the school my daughter goes to has thanked us, they now use our daughters 504 plan as a template for the other children in her school that have issues too. So I feel we've paved the way for other parents and children, and hopefully saved a bunch of kids from an early demise.

Thanks,
Chris

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I know someone who carries injections with him because his allergy to peanuts is so bad. He can't fly on a plane that serves them. A good strong whiff of them starts a reaction. if he ate one he'd be dead in minutes. This is real serious stuff. People don't understand the issue. In most places you can't smoke in doors anymore and really in a school a kid is hostage and if the kid who ate before him smeared some peanut butter on the table and such a kid got it on him he's be on the way to the hospital.

Yeah, I'd gag too getting a whiff of someones nuts on a crowded plane.....yechhh!

Seriously, this is no different than the ban on smoking in restaurants and bars. Rather than addressing the individual, or better yet, allowing the individual to deal with the problem individually, the entire group must suffer the consequences. It's just a lot easier to "fix" problems that way. Even though the long term outcome may prove worse than the original problem. And once that path is traveled, the way back is often very difficult, if not impossible.

Welcome to the herd.

..........

How exactly do you allow the individual to deal with smoke in a restaurant or bar? It's a nice thought, but completely unrealistic.

I do agree, however, that the long term outcome can sometimes prove worse than the original problem - mankind seem to wear a curiously selective set of blinkers when it comes to foresight in certain (economic) matters: fossil fuels, sub-prime mortgages, environmental disasters....

In any event, I am all for the individual stepping up and taking personal responsibility. I genuinely am. But some things are, by their nature, group-based (like the dynamics of cigarette smoke as it disperses into enclosed spaces). Others are not applicable: school children shouldn't have to be responsible for their own safety in this way while at school IMO.

What if the article that had been posted was the opposite? "7 Year old asphyxiates in panic and agony in front of classmates. School had ignored peanut allergy warnings from parents"? Would we be sitting around talking about how the parents should have been more responsible for their child's safety in that case? Would people be claiming there's an acceptable proportion of these kinds of deaths, too bad so sad?

I don't think so. Perhaps you are right Scott. There is a herd effect here, but perhaps not where you meant it was...

James.

More un-necessary nanny state intervention. Simple solution, if your kid is allerigic to peanut butter, don't feed it to him and tell him he's allergic to it and shouldn't eat it. Is it just me? When I was a kid every kid I knew practically lived on PB and J. Perhaps this is another symptom of the wussification of America. Lord willing, I'll have taken the dirt nap by the time this generation of mollycoddled little eunicks are running the show. By the way, there is a movement in several states to ban football at the high school level (the little darlings might just get hurt you know)

Not many of these food allergies in Ethiopia...just saying