Thread: Pope stepping down

Many thanks to my old friend Big Bob for posting this on FB

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Many thanks to my old friend Big Bob for posting this on FB

Maybe the funniest/most awesome thing I have seen this year.

Someone mentioned earlier that the Cardinals would be likely to vote after the man who promoted them to the Cardinalcy, but that does not seem to be true at all. I found this in the wiki about the conclave:

The newly elected pope often contrasts dramatically with his predecessor, a tendency expressed by the Italian saying "After a fat pope, a lean pope". Past cardinals have often voted for someone radically different from the pope who appointed them. The controversial one-time populist-turned-conservative, long-lived Pope Pius IX (1846–1878) was succeeded by the aristocratic and diplomatic Pope Leo XIII (1878–1903). He in turn was succeeded by the lower-class, bluntly outspoken Pope Pius X (1903–1914). Pius X's rugged ultra-conservatism contrasted with the low-key moderatism of Pope Benedict XV (1914–1922), which again contrasted with the former librarian and mountain climber Pope Pius XI (1922–1939), who led Roman Catholicism with an authoritarianism more akin to Pius X, who also shared his temper.

Pius XI was succeeded in 1939 by the aristocratic ultra-insider Curialist, Pius XI's Secretary of State, Pope Pius XII (1939–1958). Pius XII was seen as one of the great thinkers in the papacy in the 20th century. He was also the ultimate insider; his family were descended from the Roman aristocracy, with his brother working as a lawyer for the Holy See. Pius was succeeded by the lower-class, elderly, popular, informal Pope John XXIII (1958–1963). The contrast between diffident, intellectual and distant Pius XII and the humble—in his own words "ordinary"—"Good Pope John" was dramatic, with none more surprised at the election than Pope John himself, who had his own return rail ticket in his pocket when he was elected.

John proved to be a radical break with the two previous popes, and indeed with most of the popes of the 20th century. After a short but dramatic pontificate during which he convoked the Second Vatican Council which resulted in wide ranging changes in the church, the surprise John was replaced by the widely expected choice Giovanni Batista Montini, who many believed would have been elected in 1958, had he been a cardinal then. Like Pius XII, Pope Paul VI (1963–1978) was a curialist. He had worked with Pius XII in the 1930s and 1940s in the curia. Yet Paul VI was succeeded (albeit for a short time) by the non-curialist Pope John Paul I (1978). He in turn was succeeded by the first non-Italian since 1523, Pope John Paul II (1978–2005), who spoke many languages and was originally from the Eastern Bloc (an important consideration given Cold War politics and the Church's repression in the East). He was succeeded in 2005 by the German Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and Dean of the College of Cardinals Joseph Ratzinger as Pope Benedict XVI.[78

I don't know, this all makes no sense to me.

I always thought the Pope was supposed to be the big mans right hand on earth and he was supposed to direct those that chose the Pope. If that's the case how could he quit. It's like your father owns a big corporation and makes you CEO and you quit. I would think the big man would be insulted and not happy.

It just seems to me he shouldn't have the option to quit. If he can't do the job anymore it should be up to the big man to decide that and just strike him down when the time came.

But then again that ain't my religion.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I don't know, this all makes no sense to me.

I always thought the Pope was supposed to be the big mans right hand on earth and he was supposed to direct those that chose the Pope. If that's the case how could he quit. It's like your father owns a big corporation and makes you CEO and you quit. I would think the big man would be insulted and not happy.

It just seems to me he shouldn't have the option to quit. If he can't do the job anymore it should be up to the big man to decide that and just strike him down when the time came.

But then again that ain't my religion.

He is the leader of the Catholic Church. No other Christian 'branch' thinks he holds any say.

But it is very much like the CEO of a company quitting. But I doubt that anyone else that is high up in the 'company' was not aware before he actually quit.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I don't know, this all makes no sense to me.

I always thought the Pope was supposed to be the big mans right hand on earth and he was supposed to direct those that chose the Pope. If that's the case how could he quit. It's like your father owns a big corporation and makes you CEO and you quit. I would think the big man would be insulted and not happy.

It just seems to me he shouldn't have the option to quit. If he can't do the job anymore it should be up to the big man to decide that and just strike him down when the time came.

But then again that ain't my religion.

God isn't actually being very interventionist. At least not in the direct sense. Free will and all that.
That is part of the reason why we are judged in the end (or at least, that is what Christians believe).

So in terms of how that applies to the pope: the same as to anyone else. If he feels he is at an important crossroads, and his choice will have a profound effect on the church, then he will be judged by his choice. Will he choose what is best for the church and his faith? Or will he cling to his power out of selfishness?

Anyway, that is how this can looked at from a Catholic point of view.
Also to address your other point: from a Catholic pov, yes, the pope is the right hand side on earth.
There are however plenty of other branches of Christianity, that all have their roots in the same catholic churches at some point or other before breaking away. But at this point in time, the catholic pope is not recognized as a leader by any of them.

In all this back and forth about the new pope one important factor has been completely overlooked! Does the pope use a straight razor or not? Or maybe that should be "does the pope's barber use a straight razor?"

When I heard the news of Pope Benedict XVI stepping down from the Papacy, I thought only; "Well, God told him to. Duh." As a devout Catholic, I try to understand the great sacrifice of the Pope to make this very difficult decision on the eve of Lent. Although we as Catholics have always felt that this current Pope, albeit a fine man, was truthfully a transitional Pope towards one more vigorous and lasting. I too am fascinated with the process of this historical moment.

Originally Posted by Bruno

An important thing as well: It is legal for the pope to step down voluntarily, but there cannot be reasonable doubt about his motivations.
He also has to be of sound mind. This means that you have to do it before you get to the point where it is too late.
Regardless of whether he would have wanted to or not, John Paul 2 had passed this point.
I think Benedict is determined not to let that happen to him.
EDIT: I guess we're finally going to find out if the prophesy of the popes is real or not

I think John Paul definitely felt the burden. He knew he was not able to perform but felt the obligation to continue. This is evident in his statement, "There is no place in the Church for a retired Pope." Two men with very different approaches to the same problem. I wish Benedict the best.

Originally Posted by leadduck

I think John Paul definitely felt the burden. He knew he was not able to perform but felt the obligation to continue. This is evident in his statement, "There is no place in the Church for a retired Pope." Two men with very different approaches to the same problem. I wish Benedict the best.

This whole thing is new, and I can't wait to see how it plays out. I think it would be cool if BXVI and the church would work together and allow him to travel and meet the people of the World. What I mean is, the Pope has the ability to draw crowds and bring a message to thousands, I would imagine that an X Pope could do the same. But, given that he wants out of the game, he and the church may go a different way and he may not be seen too much in the future. He never came off to me as being a gregarious person, and may want very much to just fade into the darkness. One more thing, what happens to his ring?? Will they take it and smash it??

BTW, has there been any new news on what's up with picking a successor?