Thread: North Korea

Originally Posted by Wintchase

that chubby lil midget couldn't hit his ass with both hands! Much less Colorado with his second rate nintendo nuc program. I'd be surprised if they could even launch over the sea of Japan. If we just airdrop some subway sammiches over NK, they would back off.

HEY!

No trash talk about nintendo!
My original 8bit NES console is virtually indestructible, has always worked without even the smallest problem, even today after 25 years.

NK would wish their nukes worked half as well

Originally Posted by Wintchase

that chubby lil midget couldn't hit his ass with both hands! Much less Colorado with his second rate nintendo nuc program. I'd be surprised if they could even launch over the sea of Japan. If we just airdrop some subway sammiches over NK, they would back off.

That's exactly why I worry! During the height of the cold war, I was concerned a bit because the PAVE PAWS radar thing at Beale AFB was just down the road, and I was out there three times a week for three years. It was in the top 5 for targets for the Russians. But, where I live, Gridley CA, isn't exactly a "high value target", unless they want to flatten some already flat rice ground. But the NK program, that's a problem. They could be trying to hit Los Angeles and hit us instead!! Also, our defense system is designed for stuff that works good, not a high tech bottle rocket, that may spit and sputter and fly like a corkscrew.

All joking aside, the NK problem is a very complex one. I used to be colder and more callous, but I guess I've mellowed a bit with age. I used to be in the "screw 'em, nuke 'em and let God sort them out" camp. But again, I've mellowed and now think of the poor, innocent bastard over there who has no say in anything, nothing to eat, and ho hope for a future for themselves or their family. I don't see anything getting better without regime change and a redo of the power structure, but I don't see that happening. Hell, I don't see that happening in the United States, those in power use most their power clinging to their position of power with the needs and concerns of their constituents coming in behind that.

Nuclear weapons are a puzzle to get to work properly. First you need a device that will go boom, they have that, albeit a crude, old school model. The next piece of the puzzle is a delivery system, and they're working on that. Once you have a delivery system and a weapon, you need to work on size and stealth. As they are doing it now, a big ass missile that takes days to prepare, on a big launch pad visible from space, well, that's not gonna work for them, if we let them. I'm all for someone's idea that I saw on this thread, of sending a cruise missile to one every time they get ready to light the fuse on it. If not on the ground, destroy it as it leaves their airspace.

We, and I mean we as the rest of the World, have to keep them in check. If they are just ignored, they might get their program working and then we have a big problem. China needs to step up. Changes need to be made. And in the mean time, they can't be allowed to launch any more rockets.

What donv said,they are being allowed to do all the R&D without constrant,that is what has to be stopped.

Originally Posted by donv

I'm all for someone's idea that I saw on this thread, of sending a cruise missile to one every time they get ready to light the fuse on it. If not on the ground, destroy it as it leaves their airspace.

We, and I mean we as the rest of the World, have to keep them in check. If they are just ignored, they might get their program working and then we have a big problem. China needs to step up. Changes need to be made. And in the mean time, they can't be allowed to launch any more rockets.

They would take that as a declaration of war. And rightly so. They have the same right to build and test missiles as the rest of the world.
I am also not that worried about NK, because like the old soviet union: all they did so far is talking and shouting.
If the US sends a cruise missile into NK to blow up their test launch, they'll just fire everything they have into south korea. And tens of thousands will snuff it, while the global economy takes a severe hit. Because south korea produces a lot of electronics, whereas e.g. Irag only has sand and oil.

Originally Posted by pixelfixed

What donv said,they are being allowed to do all the R&D without constrant,that is what has to be stopped.

Why?

Ignoring the specific conflict here: why should countries like NK and Iran not be allowed to develop and test weapons?
They can legitimately claim to develop them for self defense. Meanwhile, the country that throws its weight around most and actually invades countries and fires missiles is the US? Mutual assured destruction only works if it is mutual. And so far, that has been the only working strategy to keep the world from descending into global war again.

I wish NK would tone down the rethoric, but they are correct in 1 thing: if they hadn't at least developed a nuke and if they hadn't had seoul at gunpoint, they would have been 'liberated' already.

Afghanistan: no nuke -> invaded
Iraq: no nuke -> invaded
NK: nuke -> not invaded.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Why?

Ignoring the specific conflict here: why should countries like NK and Iran not be allowed to develop and test weapons?
They can legitimately claim to develop them for self defense. Meanwhile, the country that throws its weight around most and actually invades countries and fires missiles is the US? Mutual assured destruction only works if it is mutual. And so far, that has been the only working strategy to keep the world from descending into global war again.

I wish NK would tone down the rethoric, but they are correct in 1 thing: if they hadn't at least developed a nuke and if they hadn't had seoul at gunpoint, they would have been 'liberated' already.

Afghanistan: no nuke -> invaded
Iraq: no nuke -> invaded
NK: nuke -> not invaded.

OK, so lets send them some ICBM's, around a fifty Peacekeeper's and fifty Chinese DF-31's. Then they can feel safe and not feel threatened. They can then concentrate their funds and efforts on their people, bringing up their standard of living and improving their living conditions.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Why?

Ignoring the specific conflict here: why should countries like NK and Iran not be allowed to develop and test weapons?
They can legitimately claim to develop them for self defense. Meanwhile, the country that throws its weight around most and actually invades countries and fires missiles is the US? Mutual assured destruction only works if it is mutual. And so far, that has been the only working strategy to keep the world from descending into global war again.

Ahhhhh now there I agree

Any Sovereign Nation should be able to do as they please I believe that wholeheartedly....

However as I said earlier in this thread with that power comes complete responsibility, if they threaten to launch a missile and call the target, then by MAD policies as soon as that missile lifts off we have to attack..
Not with a cruise missile to take out the missile but with a complete attack, that is what MAD is all about, but it seems that many of you are not comfortable with that ..

So you either have Sovereign freedom and the Mad policies, or you have the Non-Proliferation policies, but you can't have both

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Ahhhhh now there I agree

Any Sovereign Nation should be able to do as they please I believe that wholeheartedly....

However as I said earlier in this thread with that power comes complete responsibility, if they threaten to launch a missile and call the target, then by MAD policies as soon as that missile lifts off we have to attack..
Not with a cruise missile to take out the missile but with a complete attack, that is what MAD is all about, but it seems that many of you are not comfortable with that ..

So you either have Sovereign freedom and the Mad policies, or you have the Non-Proliferation policies, but you can't have both

If a missile would be launched 'at' the US, I agree with you.
However, both the US and the USSR did missile and nuke tests during the cold war, as well as spout rethoric at each other.
Neither went to war over it because there was no actual attack.
Just like now.

I agree with you about the responsibilities that go with weapons. That should go without saying.
But don't be too eager to go to war over empty words.

Originally Posted by Bruno

If a missile would be launched 'at' the US, I agree with you.
However, both the US and the USSR did missile and nuke tests during the cold war, as well as spout rethoric at each other.
Neither went to war over it because there was no actual attack.
Just like now.

I agree with you about the responsibilities that go with weapons. That should go without saying.
But don't be too eager to go to war over empty words.

It is far from like now,that twas 50 yrs ago Bruno.am no advocate of being the world policemen but we cannot allow a country run by a bunch of loose cannons to have ballistic missles.
What if Cuba decicided to start a missle program? would it be allowed? not on a bet.

Originally Posted by pixelfixed

It is far from like now,that twas 50 yrs ago Bruno.am no advocate of being the world policemen but we cannot allow a country run by a bunch of loose cannons to have ballistic missles.
What if Cuba decicided to start a missle program? would it be allowed? not on a bet.

And why not?
Cuba has done far less to the US than the US did to cuba and other countries.
Yet somehow 'cuba' of all places is an evil empire?