Thread: A Telling Story of Youth Today

Of course I am tolerant of the kid.

He did not make any agreements with anybody, so I fail to see why you want to hold him accountable for something he had absolutely no part in. His mother agreed with Glen to help cleaning some branches - why didn't she show up and do the work?

Secondly, I do not like to project stuff on other people without knowing their circumstances, and when I do not know what is going on I would rather give them the benefit of the doubt instead of judging them as harshly as possible.

Thirdly, my life is my life and theirs is their. When I was growing up my parents worked harder than any of the examples I've read in this thread to ensure that their children are properly provided for and that we can develop high skills through schooling, or artistic stuff, instead of doing low skilled work. Yes, we did that too to help them, but the values were clearly set in my family - work is very valuable, high-skilled work is more valuable than low skilled work, parents do everything they can for the benefit of their children, sacrificing for others is valuable. I am definitely going to judge the adults who provided the nurture before I judge the nature of the kid. And one of the only hard facts we know is that this kid's mother is irresponsible - it was her duty to call and give a notice and explanation why the commitment she made was broken. It is more than a simple chain of command - one of them is also an adult and is expected to work and provide for her children, the other is a child as is not expected to work at all.

One kid one experience. Maybe his Mom found out you have guns and straight razors

Originally Posted by Jimbo

I have to disagree with the assessment that the world is getting better despite the grumblings of old men. Financially, perhaps it is true. Perhaps. More young millionaires doesn't mean there ain't more destitute young people, working-poor, single mothers, drug problems, housing crises, crime, prisoners in jail (probably one of the few growth industries in the western world - jail building). Western society is rotting from the inside out, but hey, as long as we all stay plugged into our iClones we can drown out the death rattle.

Changing the measure is like sweeping dirt under a carpet. GDP doesn't measure the health of a society. But it seems it's all we care about nowadays.

Well, that's why it's important to use proper measures in the proper context. Are working-poor, housing crises, and crime worse or better than they used to be? And the timeframe to evaluate those is generations (the topic of this thread) not few years. I am pretty sure that single mothers is one thing on the rise, but I don't see how single-motherhood by itself is a problem - unpacking the problems that are typically associated with it is the proper way to quantify improvement/decline. For example domestic abuse - is increase in single-motherhood related to increase or decline in domestic abuse? It is quite possible that when the society used to stigmatize and place huge barriers to single-motherhood the domestic abuse was much higher.

As far as increasing prison population, is that due to increased crime, or due to harsher punishments for crimes that didn't used to be punished. The two are very different societal issues, and you may argue that both show decline in the society, but it's a very different form of decline.

We could look at things like life expectancy, deaths due to various illness, hunger, social disparity, but again on most of those measures over generations there has been huge progress. I am sure that on some measures there is decline, but quantification should come first and then whether we can decide if overall the positives outweigh the benefits. Without quantification, we tend to fall victims of the ways our brain distorts the past, which are very well established.

If we're talking morals when I look on generational time scale, I see that few hundred years ago people were killed for what they were thinking. Then that stopped, and I would say it was a good thing. Then people stopped being killed for the color of their skin, also a good thing in my book. Then people stopped being killed for just being unfortunate to be born poor and having to work in toxic environment (basically choosing a slower death to a fast one) - this hasn't stopped completely but it is vastly reduced. Women were allowed to participate in the political process and have a say what the society looks like. Then people stopped being discriminated based on the color of their skin.

Nowadays the society is more democratic than it ever was. May be the social mobility has decreased over the last years, but over the last generations it has increased. May be as a result, the more elitist pursuits (say art, science, technology, politics) have lost ground at least in visibility to the more populist ones (say sports, entertainment), but it's hard to argue that playing the latest videogame is more valuable than going to the latest opera production.


Now, get outta my lawn, leave the 6-pack and that brown bag with the moonshine!

Originally Posted by Jsocieties9

I have to disagree with the assessment that the world is getting better despite the grumblings of old men. Financially, perhaps it is true. Perhaps. More young millionaires doesn't mean there ain't more destitute young people, working-poor, single mothers, drug problems, housing crises, crime, prisoners in jail (probably one of the few growth industries in the western world - jail building). Western society is rotting from the inside out, but hey, as long as we all stay plugged into our iClones we can drown out the death rattle.

Changing the measure is like sweeping dirt under a carpet. GDP doesn't measure the health of a society. But it seems it's all we care about nowadays.

James.

Agreed, societies where family is more important than material objects and self are in my opinion much healthier than ours.

In resp to Gigi's note above, I agree with that, and what your saying is true. Be that as it may I guess there maybe be more to the story, therefore pretty hard to say withers it's right to give the Bennifit of the doubt or rake all this generations youth over a bed of hot coals due to this one incident. Prob safe to say somewhere between you and I lies the real reason the kid skipped out.

In the end I think the truth is no matter what generation you belong to, no matter what your demographic or location there are people who will work harder then others... Nature... Nurture.... Both..... That's a discussion with a moot point outcome; there's no changing human nature whatever the reason.

Originally Posted by edhewitt

Agreed, societies where family is more important than material objects and self are in my opinion much healthier than ours.

Saudi Arabia and the rest of that part of the world, Afganistan, Pakistan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Tadjikistan, the vast majority of Africa etc. they all fit your criteria for 'much healthier societies than ours'. Not to mention the western societies from few hundred years ago.

Originally Posted by JoeLowett

In resp to Gigi's note above, I agree with that, and what your saying is true. Be that as it may I guess there maybe be more to the story, therefore pretty hard to say withers it's right to give the Bennifit of the doubt or rake all this generations youth over a bed of hot coals due to this one incident. Prob safe to say somewhere between you and I lies the real reason the kid skipped out.

That's why it's called 'benefit of the doubt', it's the side you chose to err on, when lacking facts. You know, there is a famous phrase dating to 1209 "Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius". Few years later that line of thinking was officially rejected with the adoption of 'Magna Carta' - I would argue that that's what lies at the core of the western civilization.

And yes, generalizing from few incidents to the status of a whole generation is rather foolish. Hence my arguments when talking about societies and generations always involved large scale societal phenomena.

Originally Posted by edhewitt

Agreed, societies where family is more important than material objects and self are in my opinion much healthier than ours.

I see where you are going with this but I think that family in America is still more important than material objects BUT; I also think that material objects is what we all strive for here in America. Hence, mom and dad working like dogs to get said things is a show of love... thank god we are still able to work hard to be able to provide our children those things!!

Originally Posted by gugi

Of course I am tolerant of the kid.

He did not make any agreements with anybody, so I fail to see why you want to hold him accountable for something he had absolutely no part in. His mother agreed with Glen to help cleaning some branches - why didn't she show up and do the work?

.

I think you misread the post, he came looking for work, I talked to Him AND his Mother at the same time to make sure she also gave her permission and to define the work he was allowed to do.. Also to check for any Food/Drink allergies or problems because I know my wife all to well, she would have made snacks and beverages..

Basically I was doing what any responsible home owner would do and make sure that all was well and good..



From Post #1

"So of course a couple of days after I finish the 15 YO kid who's family is renting from my closest neighbor wanders up here to ask if by chance I was looking for somebody to do some work.. I tell him he was a day late but I would see what comes up.."

"I could use a hand, the wife agrees, so I stop by to talk to him and his Mom.. We agree after school today he can come down and work for a bit, I will pay him $10 per hour cash.. At this point in time I am feeling pretty happy.".

Yes, I absolutely missed that he was involved on the second day when the agreement was made. I thought that it was just his mother and he was at school at the time. As you said as a responsible adult you asked her for permission and for what he would be allowed to do - that alone puts the ultimate responsibility on her. When he did not show up, she needs to call and explain. For example, she can punish him for not showing but if you do the same you'll probably be in trouble with the law.

not all are like that, ill admit most are but im 19 and very independant at work.

by that im trusted to be given a list of jobs and sought gear out for them and ill organise with the other lads what needs doing so it gets done