Thread: Martial Arts Styles

I live down the road from Hatsumi-sensei the Grandmaster of the Bujinkan budo taijutsu. I have lived here and trained with him for two decades now. I love the Bujinkan obviously. You mention ninjutsu in the Bujinkan we have three ninjutsu schools but we have only ever trained in one. The others are not taught although they have been talked about. They consist more of combat theory not techniques. I would of course recommend the Bujinkan to everyone but I will caution you there are a lot of really bad teachers out there. So if this is something you really want to study you need to really pick your teacher carefully. Don't just listen to how cool they might say they are or even the rank they have. That means nothing to their quality or competency in the art.

Michael Pearce

I am in Genbukan, and have been practising ninpo for just over a year now.
I also practise jujutsu. Training in our dojo is intense and strict (this is true for Genbukan in general).

Because of this, and because the curriculum is fixed and examination quality control at black belt level is very strict, I recommend that More seriously. If you are looking for traditional Japanese ninjutsu, Bujinkan, Genbukan and Jinenkan are where you want to look for a good teacher.

The only thing I advise you if you are interested in ninjutsu training is this: Forget everything you ever saw in the movies, and don't assume that anything you will do in training resemble what you saw in the movies.

Originally Posted by Kungamord

If I were to start training today I would start with greco-roman or western boxing. Why? I'm a modern european guy, I don't fancy wearing PJs in public places, I don't want to follow a made up picking order (belts) and I want something physically challenging. I don't believe in esoterical masters of the mystic east (I've been training half a year in thailand, masters are made by dedication and good promoters, not temples).

I'm a modern European guy as well. Our training hall is not a public place so that is not an issue. Our training is physically challenging and requires a lot of practise. We have 3 belt colors: white (newbie, no exams) green (lower level) black (higher level). I am also not a believer in the esoterical / shinto aspect of traditional JMA, but I treat it as I would treat other customs: as a form of courtesy / etiquette.

You should not paint all oriental arts with the same brush.
For example, I could argue that kyukishinkai karate is equal in intensity and hardness to muay thai. And there are many MMA fighters with a traditional martial arts background. For example Bas Rutten was a 5th dan kyukishinkai karateka as well a muay thai fighter. And since Bas was really into it for the fighting, I doubt he would have stuck with KK karate for so long if it entailed nothing more than showing up in JMA gear and collecting belts.

Originally Posted by Bruno

I'm a modern European guy as well. Our training hall is not a public place so that is not an issue. Our training is physically challenging and requires a lot of practise. We have 3 belt colors: white (newbie, no exams) green (lower level) black (higher level). I am also not a believer in the esoterical / shinto aspect of traditional JMA, but I treat it as I would treat other customs: as a form of courtesy / etiquette.

You should not paint all oriental arts with the same brush.
For example, I could argue that kyukishinkai karate is equal in intensity and hardness to muay thai. And there are many MMA fighters with a traditional martial arts background. For example Bas Rutten was a 5th dan kyukishinkai karateka as well a muay thai fighter. And since Bas was really into it for the fighting, I doubt he would have stuck with KK karate for so long if it entailed nothing more than showing up in JMA gear and collecting belts.

kyukishin is not comparable to muay thai, the kicks are basically the same (more pronounced in KK), but there are so many things lacking in KK. The rules are very different. There are no full contact punches to the face, no full contact elbows to the face, no full contact knees to the face, there is no clinching, there is fewer rounds, there is a mat instead of a ring. How often do you see someone knocked out in kyukishin? How often do you see cuts? How often do you see a stadium fulled to the brim watching KK? Saying that I have all respect for KK guys, I mean taking bare knuckle punches straight to the chestbone takes courage.

The best foundation for MMA is wrestling, see the series the ultimate fighter, wrestlers adapt easier.

We all choose different things in life, I really like the freedom in not have to follow a system or collecting belts, or following unnecessary hierarchies. Of course I respect my coaches and all my sparring partners, but that's because of their personalities and talents, not due to any belt. Also I like the sparring a lot, the sparring in western martial sports is very different from sparring in JMA imo. Training a martial sport will likely get you more fitter than a traditional JMA (per unit time invested in training).

Originally Posted by Kungamord

kyukishin is not comparable to muay thai, the kicks are basically the same (more pronounced in KK), but there are so many things lacking in KK.

...

How often do you see a stadium fulled to the brim watching KK? Saying that I have all respect for KK guys, I mean taking bare knuckle punches straight to the chestbone takes courage.).

I can follow your argument, but I would not include spectator popularity in the comparison as an argument for judging the art. After all, any MA pales in comparison with soccer (in Belgium) or rugby, snooker and cricket in the UK, or curling (wherever they play that), ... the spectator angle is cultural.

Originally Posted by Kungamord

Training a martial sport will likely get you more fitter than a traditional JMA (per unit time invested in training).

That is probably true in terms of stamina, strength etc.
Although I've noticed that JMA enabled me to roll / dive-roll / breakfall from any position in virtually any direction. That, and breakfalls, are things that you are less likely to pick up from western MA with the same effectiveness per unit time invested in training.

I do agree with you that it all depends on what you are looking for in an art.

Originally Posted by Kungamord

kyukishin is not comparable to muay thai, the kicks are basically the same (more pronounced in KK), but there are so many things lacking in KK. The rules are very different. There are no full contact punches to the face, no full contact elbows to the face, no full contact knees to the face, there is no clinching, there is fewer rounds, there is a mat instead of a ring. How often do you see someone knocked out in kyukishin? How often do you see cuts? How often do you see a stadium fulled to the brim watching KK? Saying that I have all respect for KK guys, I mean taking bare knuckle punches straight to the chestbone takes courage.

The best foundation for MMA is wrestling, see the series the ultimate fighter, wrestlers adapt easier.

We all choose different things in life, I really like the freedom in not have to follow a system or collecting belts, or following unnecessary hierarchies. Of course I respect my coaches and all my sparring partners, but that's because of their personalities and talents, not due to any belt. Also I like the sparring a lot, the sparring in western martial sports is very different from sparring in JMA imo. Training a martial sport will likely get you more fitter than a traditional JMA (per unit time invested in training).

Your kidding right ????

You really believe this MMA stuff don't ya???

Ground and pound Dude , choke them out, most fights go to the ground..

Look I am going to say this in all honesty and through much experience in real fights, not my 38 years of Martial Arts experience...

MMA in the street, in this day and age will get you DEAD...at least over here in the wild west of America..
If your fighting style is geared to a ring, and fighting with rules, and makes the assumption you will fight against one person yer DEAD...Period end of story don't get sucked into I can westle so I can fight mental block, over here you will end up with a knife through your kidney, or shot...


To the OP:
Keep this in mind when choosing a martial art, it is two words, not one, and the Instructor is the most important component not the style...
Make sure if you want to fight in a ring you chose an instructor that has been there, and if you want to fight in the street the same goes there...
If by chance you want more of the art rather than the martial traditions chose an art that does not have a war background...

The two styles that the OP asked about,
I know a few Hapkido Instructors and actually combined classes with one about two years ago a few times just so both of our groups of students could gain some perspective.. It is a well rounded art that incorporates Locks, Holds, and Take downs, along with the traditional strikes and kicks more closely related to JMA than Korean..
Ninjitsu, I know what I have studied about the ancient art, but that is more of a thought process than a actual fighting art, and the closest thing you would find now to a real Ninja is a scout sniper... As to the arts now from what I have seen it seems that the schools teach a well rounded curriculum of a mixed styles much akin to a Kajukenbo, or perhaps Ketsugo... again seek out the instructor not just the style..

Originally Posted by gssixgun

As to the arts now from what I have seen it seems that the schools teach a well rounded curriculum of a mixed styles much akin to a Kajukenbo, or perhaps Ketsugo... again seek out the instructor not just the style..

From my experience (kajukenbo BB), most hapkido students seem to be fairly well rounded and trained in a mixed background... ninjitsu I don't know about. I know that we trained a very mixed curriculum, but as Glen said... that was because our instructor trained us that way. There were other schools that we trained with from time to time that were much more focused on more traditional approaches.

you can find very good instructors, and very poor instructors and it makes the difference. One will be tough, the other will be a form of daycare.

I seen Ninjitsu on Fight Science on Nat. Geo. channel. Looks pretty cool. I'm a boxer, fought for about 4 years and trained for around 6. I grew up watching it, I love it. I respect all fighting styles though. I think we waste our time arguing what style is better or most effective. The fighter is the element that makes it impossible to make a fair comparison of styles. I have wanted to try other styles since my coach out here can't put down the gin, but I'm not sure what. We got a kung fu school out here though lol.

Originally Posted by Del1r1um

you can find very good instructors, and very poor instructors and it makes the difference. One will be tough, the other will be a form of daycare.

Notice that many of us are saying this, in fact I didn't even mention the styles that I do because it doesn't matter... It really does come down to the instructor not the style...
I fact in my years of being a "Martial Artist" I have met many instructors that have never been in a street fight, there is an old boxing adage that says "Everyone has a plan till ya get hit"
This is another that you hear a lot around Dojo's and it holds water "A good street fighter will beat a Martial Artist every single time, unless that guy is a street fighter too then it gets fun"...

Go watch the class see what you see, and by the way they should let you watch all you want,...They might have certain times that they allow visitors but other than that you should be able to watch...

Originally Posted by cybrok

What kind of ninjutsu have you seen?

What I learned was not "hard", the hits were more distractions.

Bujinkan is composed of 3 ninjutsu schools (ryu) and 6 jujitsu schools, and jujitsu means "the art of softness"

It's been some time since. Local ninjitsu school shared the same Dojo with us but i think i never found out what style they had.

What is comes to why i started practicing Martial Arts. I started with Judo as a teenager, but after 5 years or so i changed into karate and soon after into kobudo (=traditional karate) school.
It was not so much how i could learn to defend myself; it was rather physical fitness and self confidence. Also understanding the meaning and use of various Katas. Knowing my body. Knowing my limits. The feeling of meeting the opponent in tatami. I miss those days. Damn my knees.
Am i old enough to start Taiji?

If anyones interested of pure self defence then i would think that Krav Maga would be good. I have several friends at my work practicing it and they seem to be happy for what they learn.