Thread: Martial Arts Styles

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I fact in my years of being a "Martial Artist" I have met many instructors that have never been in a street fight, there is an old boxing adage that says "Everyone has a plan till ya get hit"...

I seem to remember these words were coined by Mike Tyson.

A week or 2 ago I was having this discussion with an MMA proponent who believe that full contact MMA training was the best there was, and that other syles were not as good. He referred to something Royce Gracie used to say when they went on that challenge campaign to gain a name before starting the UFC. This statement was used to mock many TMA styles

As one of the Gracie's was fond of pointing out......'Why are you worried about fighting multiple people, when you can't even fight one?'

This is flawed reasoning.

I saw many of those gracie challenges, and their strategy basically boiled down to diving towards the other guy's legs / midsection (blocking or taking any kick or hit along the way) dragging him to the ground where the fight continued in their favor.

Doing this in a situation with multiple attackers will get you your head kicked in rapidly. And it is also not one of the most common self defense scenarios. Muggers will not dive for your legs and graple until you are in an arm lock.

This is the reason why in many traditional systems you try to stay on your legs as much as possible, and why you don't attempt takedowns yourself by default. In many realistic SD and (originally) combat situations, this amounts to suicide.

Styles don't win fights. Fighters win fights.
Both Bas Rutten and Tanemura sensei would be able to rip me apart equally well

I think in real life scenario, my ninjutsu and muay thai background will serve me the best, not my grappling background.

I don't want the attacker to tap, I want him out of order.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Your kidding right ????

You really believe this MMA stuff don't ya???

Ground and pound Dude , choke them out, most fights go to the ground..

Look I am going to say this in all honesty and through much experience in real fights, not my 38 years of Martial Arts experience...

MMA in the street, in this day and age will get you DEAD...at least over here in the wild west of America..
If your fighting style is geared to a ring, and fighting with rules, and makes the assumption you will fight against one person yer DEAD...Period end of story don't get sucked into I can westle so I can fight mental block, over here you will end up with a knife through your kidney, or shot...

Hmm, it's a valid point you make. Although if we elaborate a bit, the best self defense is usually to be a good runner, and if you end up cornered in and outnumbered your pretty much f****d any way.

In the only real fights I've been in I have suplexed my enemy or just hugged them really really hard (and say 'you so nasty' in a rocco sifredi way). I did get my knuckles lacerated in my youth over a guys teeth though. Needless to say, he was incapacitated by that. Punching without wraps or gloves is a big no no for me from that time on.

I have a buddy who is a good MMA fighter with a good record, and he is also a cop, he has stated to me several times that choking out an attacker will probably look worse than knocking somebody out, even though the physical effects usually is more dangerous by striking. Of course holding the choke long enough is a wee bit more fatal.

As a lot of other people have said, styles don't win fights. But some are more prone to winning.

Train whatever you like, but if your looking for fitness, a sport will get you there faster. And you won't have to wear a impractical suit or be hold back by a rank system if you go with any of the western(-ized) arts.

Originally Posted by Bruno

This is the reason why in many traditional systems you try to stay on your legs as much as possible, and why you don't attempt takedowns yourself by default. In many realistic SD and (originally) combat situations, this amounts to suicide.

Originally Posted by Kungamord

Hmm, it's a valid point you make. Although if we elaborate a bit, the best self defense is usually to be a good runner, and if you end up cornered in and outnumbered your pretty much f****d any way.

The "run away" option is exactly right, and should never be given up if at all possible...

But we are way off topic here, but I could talk Fighting Styles all day long, I enjoy it as much, if not more, than using a straight razor...

One thing to always remember in the back of your mind though is that no style can make you a fighter, you either are or your not, only life and genetics can do that... I have trained plenty of people that are very proficient Artists and great Practitioners but they are not, nor ever will be "fighters" they might be able to protect themselves against an attacker, if everything goes right, but it is when the "system" breaks down is when the fighter come out or it never will...

One of the great fallacies of martial arts is what is often referred to as re-direct, the part where the instructor says "Throw a punch" then goes through a super fast combo that neatly disables the attacker..
Or the part where the student says "What if I do this" and the whole dance starts again... But all that comes apart at the seams when re-direct doesn't happen and that first punch or move lands...

Then all the sparring and conditioning and the fast reflexes that you develop from all those hours in the Dojo or on the mat do come into play...this is where your contact arts help a ton Like MMA, Judo, Jujitsu, Wrestling, Boxing etc:

One of the biggest differences in styles, is the fight mentality, does it hold Defense, as the all encompassing thought "Don't react until they make a move, then re-direct it" or is it more war like, and teaches "When confronted, hit first, hit hard, and keep pressing the attack until your opponent has either lost the ability or will to continue" ....

These are all things that you have to think about when picking your style, school, or instructor...

Originally Posted by Sailor

It's been some time since. Local ninjitsu school shared the same Dojo with us but i think i never found out what style they had.
......snip.....

One point is that "style" translates to organization
more often than not. Organization ties are both good and
bad. An instructor that is not part of an organization
is a big risk. Some organizations are McDojo franchises
that can be as uninspiring as a national chain doughnut shop.

A very big component of training is perspiration.

If you watch an intermediate or advanced class
and they are not dripping from exertion move on.
By the same token, if you are there in the heat of
the summer no one should pass out from the heat as well.

Look for the old guys with grey whiskers still training
after all these years.

No locked in long term contracts and fee structure...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

The "run away" option is exactly right, and should never be given up if at all possible...

But we are way off topic here, but I could talk Fighting Styles all day long, I enjoy it as much, if not more, than using a straight razor...

One thing to always remember in the back of your mind though is that no style can make you a fighter, you either are or your not, only life and genetics can do that... I have trained plenty of people that are very proficient Artists and great Practitioners but they are not, nor ever will be "fighters" they might be able to protect themselves against an attacker, if everything goes right, but it is when the "system" breaks down is when the fighter come out or it never will...

One of the great fallacies of martial arts is what is often referred to as re-direct, the part where the instructor says "Throw a punch" then goes through a super fast combo that neatly disables the attacker..
Or the part where the student says "What if I do this" and the whole dance starts again... But all that comes apart at the seams when re-direct doesn't happen and that first punch or move lands...

Then all the sparring and conditioning and the fast reflexes that you develop from all those hours in the Dojo or on the mat do come into play...this is where your contact arts help a ton Like MMA, Judo, Jujitsu, Wrestling, Boxing etc:

One of the biggest differences in styles, is the fight mentality, does it hold Defense, as the all encompassing thought "Don't react until they make a move, then re-direct it" or is it more war like, and teaches "When confronted, hit first, hit hard, and keep pressing the attack until your opponent has either lost the ability or will to continue" ....

These are all things that you have to think about when picking your style, school, or instructor...

Threads like this always evolve in to this sort of thing IMO

It was a long time ago I gave up the self defence thoughts about my own training. I have mostly trained as a sport and now mostly fitness. But most importantly of all, for fun. Why spend all those hours doing something that isn't fun? It should be fun to train, spar, clinch and fight. Life's too short for anything else.

Where do I sign up? Do I get extra points for letting myself get pinned ..... repeatedly.

Originally Posted by xman

That's wrong. It's supposed the be the rear NAKED choke.

I like that one too: