Thread: Pierre Thiers Limited Edition on e-bay, NR!

OK, here's mu thought on this matter.
First, a little history on the Thiers-Issard, and nice movie about the making of a Thiers-Issard razor.

Straight razors were in their heydays in the 18 and 19 century. They were produced in large quantities (1000's and more, as you can see in the movie), and heat treated in large quantities at a time, because it was cheaper for the factories to fire up the ovens and do a large batch at one time. Back there, every guy had one, and often more, and they were ment to be tools, and treated like ones. This meen, they were often mistreated, misplaced, replaced e.t.c. Now, with the aperence of King Gillette and his invention, this quickly (in the period of decade or less) changed. Guys are ditching their crude shaving tools, and reaching for this miracle shaving tool. From then on, the straight razor was in constant decline until Mr. Lynn Abrams created this group, and singlehanded saved the straight razor from total extintion as (the best) shaving tool.
Now, companies that made razors were left with huge stockpiles of forged blanks, and since the price of the razors tooke a plunge, it was no more good business to sell them at premium price. So, large reserves were left, often forgoten to be decided on later. So, now, with the return of the straight razor, and new manufacturers in the business, custom makers like Mastro Livi and Bill Ellis, TI decided it is good time to make money. They are respected company, and often said, the best. They sell the TI Master Pierre limited edition as a premium razor. It's on customers to believe the story and reputation of the TI, and on time to prove the razors as good shavers. Me, personally, If I had the $$$, I would get without thinking twice one of them. Maestros and Bill's too...

Nenad

Nothing you have said is common sense... NOTHING. You have only voiced a very weak postulation that these razors were PROBABLY rejects because of some convoluted and assenine deduction. Close? Is that it? or did I miss your point?

You got your degress in the real world? Pal, (No name? - You get Pal) it is clearly obvious that you have been in a protected world your whole life. Had you exposed the personality you have displayed here in the real world, someone would have kicked your ass a long time ago and you wouldn't be like you are now.

So you think I'm a bully and you're supposed to take my word? My word? Humph! We digress to the rat's patoot again. I never offered my word or were you just not paying attention? All I did was call you on pretending to know something that you don't have a clue about. I don't care how many business degrees you have. And when I said challenge, I don't mean that you just questioned the possibilities... nothing wrong with that. I'm saying you came in and pushed us in the chest with both hands. When I accused you of babble, it was because all you did was snip what you needed from somewhere else for your weak presentation. You should write spin for the Clinton's.

Not antagonistic? After saying that you thought these TI's were runts and seconds? And then offer us your worldly common sense for how they got that way? Ok.... what could I possibly been thinking? You actually think you will get anybody to go into some deep thought about runts and seconds?

While we're at it... you are not allowed to use the word vitriol more than the two times you have already. Flip out the thesaurus again for something new.


You want to quote and answer, try these

they were not sold. This is indisputable

How do you know that? Could they have been sold and not picked up? Or held for someone? Then, the store owner died and couldn't pick 'em up? And the widow said to keep them until she opened another store cause she could't bring herself to go into the one where her husband died on the floor? Maybe they didn't have scales and the sons couldn't work on them because they were too emotionally involved in the loss of their dad to touch them? Or maybe WWI interfered with this batch. Maybe there was a fire in the factory and scales needed to be replaced first. Maybe an employee stole them? Ah ha... what about that? Then the grandkids felt guilty and brought them back years and years later. These things are just as plausaable as any of the crap you were talking about, Mr. Fortune 500 business guy. (Oh... I can see the quote on this one now. Ok everybody, here it comes. He is in the top 500)


The point here being that you can make crap up all day long and not have an answer. Know what? IT JUST DON'T MATTER! TI's are going to remain collectible in spite of your theories or how many times you have blessed us with your grand ability to formulate answers for their existance. All of this due to your uniformed education and multiple degrees, of course. You are the one who doesn't get it... not us

• What is your name?
• What is the name of your business?
• Is it a successful business?
• What is your web site?

Originally Posted by Laager

I think it's really pointless having any discussion with you. You're simply incapable of intelligent conversation.

You think you got it bad... look what we are having to put up with

Originally Posted by Laager

The only issue I have is that the limited edition razors predate the safety razor from Gillette in commercial form by 18 years.

I think the hand-forged Pierre razors were just upscale or fancier model at that time, not limited edition. Simply, master's view of the best razor he can produce.
That kind of blades often have a long shelf life, due to less demand for them (the higher price), and were forged and heat-treated in bulk, to keep the cosistency in quality and shape (since they were hand-forged). Later, when there is demand for one of them, they are grinded, gold-decorated or etched and sold. They are now limited, for obvious reasons.

Nenad.

I'm interested in this auction, as I don't currently have any TI razors. I'm brand new to eBay, and so suspect that I will not win this auction except by mis-steps by other more seasoned "eBay'rs."

So, why were these razors not sold over a century ago? They could possibly have not been up to the standard of the manufacturer at the time; but why make 450 of them that way to only then decide that they weren't up to snuff? Maybe the market shifted, and this particular style was no longer in favor once production was completed? Perhaps the price needed to recoup the investment was not viable for the period; individuals would simply buy a cheaper razor to do their shaving chores. Perhaps it was a special order that fell through? Again, a specific design that wasn't going to market well at the time. Also, how many vintage TI's are out there for sale? I can't say that I
have looked for them, but I may now just out of my own curiosity.

What is TI's marketing strategy now? They're trying to sell them. I'm sure there is a little marketing spin on these razors. Wouldn't that be expected -- how else do you get the excitement up to sell them? Does the company of today truly know their history? Can it be definitively stated that there are accurate records today for what and why these blades were forged? This lot of "abandoned" product would not be the first by an industry/company to re-appear for sale at a later time. Why hold on to them? Is it because the company is still solvent enough to retain them until an appropriate sale is made? Regardless of their quality when manufactured, it seems that they are
certainly up to today's standards. I wonder if we have better or worse standards now compared to a century ago?

Trolling (alleged or actual) is best dealt with by ignoring it, and letting the MODS deal with it according to the forum rules. Aren't there also forum software features where you can simply ignore an individual's posts? If this
had been done in this thread, the challenge post would have been only one in a couple dozen(?). Instead, we've got bantering across individuals that has nothing to do with the original intent of the thread, creating alot of noise
(IMO) -- not that I now what that really was. May I suggest taking the issue to PM? Simply reading text does not always convey the communication that was originally intended. Some people are not as tactfulas others; some are not as agile in social settings; some lose these skills earlier in stressed circumstances.

Finally, I am not a business major, business owner or anything related to sales (I am a terrible salesman); I'm just a plain ole consumer. I can provide credentials on request, but really they're not impressive and have nothing to
do with my wetshaving hobby. Oh yeah, I'm Chris Harbach, pleased to be here for the time being and to meet you all.

Originally Posted by Laager

Whom has been acting like a snot-nosed teenager? Mirror, Sir.

Why don't you go back out and then come back in with something besides your rear end on your shoulder?

Sorry, man, but you come in here acting like you're God's gift to this place, and I guess you expect all of us to bow down at your entry, but it ain't gonna happen.

You, Sir, may have great credentials, and know all the big and obscure words in the English language (and maybe a few other languages), but some of the folks on here have forgotten more about razors (and I'd venture more about business, and how to win friends and influence people, too), than you'll ever learn.

Originally Posted by Laager

It's late 19th century. You produce 450 razors; a substantial investment in time and effort. To not finish them and sell them would require an intentional decision not to. You then just forget about them? You then forget about the time, effort and profits sitting there? That does not make sense. That is not efficient. All that is required is to find out why they were put aside. I have suggested a few reasons, including one which none seem to be interested in pursuing - namely that it is possible they were second rate to others produced at the time. I would have thought a collector might consider looking for other Thiers-Issard razors of the same year as a potential grail with that analysis.

However, all I see is people complaining.

I very seriously doubt that these razors are anything less than the work of a Master. You seem to know a little about a lot, but your logic is totally off base on this one.

When Ansel Adams approached the end of his life, he worked feverishly to produce as many individual pieces of work as he possibly could, considering his extremely high quality standards, so that there would be some available to future generations. This is not an uncommon practice in a world where creativity and skill are treasured.

Far from being a poor blacksmith just trying to keep his family fed, by 1884, Mr. Thiers was the founder and guiding Master of his foundry, and apparentlyhe forged these razors as his last premier edition prior to his retirement.

Thus far, I've seen a lot of posts from you where you are challenging every concept, and atttacking virtually evey member that replies to you. You can go ahead and add me to your attack list. I'm Dan Lambert, and I've learned a huge amount from these guys on this list in a couple of months by listening to what they had to say.

My grandfather was a wise old man when he told me that, "It's really hard to learn anything when you're talkiing."

Maybe he should have told you that, too.

I would ask Mr. Laager to refrain from any further without purpose antagonism in this forum. I would also ask that he simply conduct his business in the other forums, but I like the other folks to much to impose him on them. We do from time to time see people like this come around and my bestest recommendation is to ignore them. If he becomes more offensive, he will be removed, but hopefully that will be a last resort. Thanks guys. Lynn

PS......I have honed a few of these and they are magnificent shavers and beautiful razors to boot. Have fun. Lynn

Originally Posted by adjustme69

I would ask Mr. Laager to refrain from any further without purpose antagonism in this forum. I would also ask that he simply conduct his business in the other forums, but I like the other folks to much to impose him on them. We do from time to time see people like this come around and my bestest recommendation is to ignore them. If he becomes more offensive, he will be removed, but hopefully that will be a last resort. Thanks guys. Lynn

Well said, Lynn. This site is supposed to be enjoyable and informative. We are playing into the hands of someone who enjoys controversy, which makes us guilty too.


-Rob

showme dislikes trolls.