Thread: getting an edge with a coticule

If you cannot reach Modine, then try Nun2Sharp. If you cannot reach him, try Hibudgl at the RazorAndStone forum. All three are in KS and are able to help. If that doesn't work, then Randy and I might have to do another road trip if you'd like to host a mini meet-up.

Thanks Utopian for the suggestions. No-go with the folks here on SRP unfortunately, but i'll register for razorandstone to see if your other recommendation would be available.
If that doesn't work, I would be more than happy to host a meet. I'll shoot you a PM about that though

I have the phone numbers of two of the three people I mentioned. I will make sure that some how, some way, we will get you the help you need. That said, meet-ups in MO used to be a tradition and we are overdue for one. If you really are willing and able to host one, that would be great!

Originally Posted by Utopian

If you cannot reach Modine, then try Nun2Sharp. If you cannot reach him, try Hibudgl at the RazorAndStone forum. All three are in KS and are able to help. If that doesn't work, then Randy and I might have to do another road trip if you'd like to host a mini meet-up.

There you go again, volunteering me for a road trip !

Originally Posted by fxt913

This is such a classic subject: "getting an edge with a coticule"[...] Happy "coticuling"!

Oookay. So. I don't know where you got all that information and why you seem to believe that's the long and short of it.

Whether or not most are finishers, is very much a matter of personal taste. Most coticules I have tried were perfectly capable of providing a keen, smooth shaving edge that holds up quite a while. Many other users share that view.

While you can burnish a coticule, it is not common use. As you hone, and especially while using slurry, a coticule releases garnets that refresh the surface.

Coticules have long been used for sharpening razors.

While coticules are, generally speaking, non-porous, using oil is fine. As far as i know though, it has never been the standard. Personally, I have not noticed coticules performing better when used with oil as compared to water though. But whatever holds your fancy.

I also have not noticed any significant edge improvement when finishing under running water.

It seems some people's expectations as to what a coticule should be able to provide is misplaced. Many seem to think that a coticule on water should add keenness. Most do not significantly do this. Finishing on a coticule provides shaving comfort, not keenness.

Also, finishing on a coticule on water takes, generally speaking, at least 30 X-strokes.

If your keenness standard is something like a synthetic hone of 20k+, you will be sorely dissappointed with the keenness coming off a coticule. I have shaved with plenty of "scary sharp" synthetic edges, and still very much prefer a coticule edge (although it is possible to get "scary sharp" off a coticule as well, with a bit of effort). Coticule edges last quite a bit longer than high grit synthetic edges as well, in my experience.

didnt mean to cause a ruckus. I would say that most of what I have read/researched aligns with what you just said Pithor, though I think fxt913 was possibly speaking more about the history of the stone?
I bought the coticule because I wanted a "do it all" stone (now i know better), and the coticule seemed to be as close as I could get.

Originally Posted by Butzy

didnt mean to cause a ruckus. I would say that most of what I have read/researched aligns with what you just said Pithor, though I think fxt913 was possibly speaking more about the history of the stone?
I bought the coticule because I wanted a "do it all" stone (now i know better), and the coticule seemed to be as close as I could get.

My natural BBW/Coticule was a very good 'do it all' stone for me over about 30 yrs. Occasionally used a no-name Swaty barber hone for a quick touchup though. The coticule could do the job, the barber hone was just quicker for touchups.

Below are my itemized responses:

Oookay. So. I don't know where you got all that information and why you seem to believe that's the long and short of it.-------fxt913: That info is my life experience, from years of truly enjoying this great hobby/sport, which somehow incited a response all the way from Finland! Cool!

Whether or not most are finishers, is very much a matter of personal taste. Most coticules I have tried were perfectly capable of providing a keen, smooth shaving edge that holds up quite a while. Many other users share that view.----- fxt913: Taste, and exposure to other stones has a lot to do with it! Most coticules are great natural honing stones, but they differ a lot! Simply, neither you, nor me, should generalize: all good, or all bad!! Not all are great finishing razor stones, or work great on all kind of blades, but most work great as pre-finishers! Many users share this view too! Butchers use them too, quite a bit, and even they do not like them all! Selecting them was quite a sport for many barber supply houses early on.

While you can burnish a coticule, it is not common use. As you hone, and especially while using slurry, a coticule releases garnets that refresh the surface.---fxt913: That is generally true.... from your perspective, and my own initial experience too (I finished several carbon blades for over a decade on cotis.... with decent results.....). I support that statement. But, from what I was told by belgian barbers (well a couple were italian barbers in Leuven, and Gent)...the cotis are oil stones, and should be used as such (there is literature available to support this...old barber broshures/ads ). They were clearly not using just them...they used other oilstones... and "corrected" me on my use as waterstones. Sure enough, my own experience in finishing with them with oil later on made them better....increased the keenness by a notch.

Coticules have long been used for sharpening razors.----fxt913: very true...sharpening is a big word.... yes, most of them do great as mid-range stones, and a few select of them are great finishers. But not any coticule can finish well!!!! You could say the same for jnats, or anything else. Generalizations of this kind simply have not helped beginners! Some people love to hate cotis, some love to praise them! It has become a sport for some. Some have it as a business! I consider them special for what they are, and happen to be, and where they can be used in a progression. I still have a couple of carbon blades dedicated to them for finishing.

While coticules are, generally speaking, non-porous, using oil is fine. As far as i know though, it has never been the standard. Personally, I have not noticed coticules performing better when used with oil as compared to water though. But whatever holds your fancy.----fxt913: Indeed, whatever holds your fancy, as long as you enjoy them. Some of them auto-slurry, and might be porous...so not the best to use with oil. Some are hard a non-porous...they can finish great with oil in my own experience.

I also have not noticed any significant edge improvement when finishing under running water.----fxt913: Likewise!

It seems some people's expectations as to what a coticule should be able to provide is misplaced. Many seem to think that a coticule on water should add keenness. Most do not significantly do this. Finishing on a coticule provides shaving comfort, not keenness.---Precisely! This is really what I was trying to convey....but appearantly it flew by some readers, and never cought their eyes. You can bring the keenness up.....several ways....one barber showed me his "special trick stone"...never knew what it was (black with white irregular patches, with oil), but it was used prior to finishing on cotis. I hear also they were using turkish oil stones as the best oil stones. Myself, I have used a Pierre de la Lune the same way with good results, but you have to go back to coti as La Lunes are a bit too brisk. Otherwise following with Black Surgical Arkansas brings about a crazy good edge.

Also, finishing on a coticule on water takes, generally speaking, at least 30 X-strokes.----fxt913: Sure, maybe with your cotis and your blades! Again, not all can do that!

If your keenness standard is something like a synthetic hone of 20k+, you will be sorely dissappointed with the keenness coming off a coticule. I have shaved with plenty of "scary sharp" synthetic edges, and still very much prefer a coticule edge (although it is possible to get "scary sharp" off a coticule as well, with a bit of effort). Coticule edges last quite a bit longer than high grit synthetic edges as well, in my experience.------fxt913: Agree totally with this! But, my standard is not synthetic...not really, my (and others here) standards have gone higher over the years ever since the introduction of awasedo jnats, or finishing with Black Surgical or Translucent Arkansas stones with oil. Longevity is somewhat the same as cotis....but again, the grind, the temper....heating/cooling/freezing applied, shaving technique....so many other variables play with that, not just coti profile.

Last, but not least: I am humbled that someone actually commented on my advice given to a novice purely with the intent of helping! It looks like you are very much trying to portray ALL cotis, all of them, natural stones that they are, for all blades, as great for anything, finishing too! If that is your experience, I respect that! But I hope you can accept that there are others who have a different perspective. I have been having a great time with this sport and enjoying every minute of it! I hope you do the same!

Originally Posted by randydance062449

There you go again, volunteering me for a road trip !

Old folk need to be kept occupied!

Originally Posted by fxt913

It looks like you are very much trying to portray ALL cotis, all of them, natural stones that they are, for all blades, as great for anything, finishing too!

I think that clearly is not true, given that Pithor wrote…

Originally Posted by Pithor

Whether or not most are finishers, is very much a matter of personal taste.