Thread: 20K vs 12K after dovo black paste

I've tried many things on Coticules and also find my best edges come from dry honing. Controversial to many, but I've found the edges to be excellent for my personal taste. I prefer them over oil or water. I find them very keen, but really smooth.

So I figured why not try honing on the 20K dry? I can already hear people cringe, but it worked very well for me.

I did enough laps on the 20K dry followed by a superb linen and horsehide strop by Scrupleworks with great results. The edge felt smoother than ever coming off of the 20K.

Outstanding edge and shaves. Will undoubtedly finish more razors on my 20K dry.

Out of all the edges between the 20K, different Coticules and BBWs, Eschers and boxed Thuringers, my BBW comes out the best in a side by side comparison of all the aforementioned for my personal taste. Super keen and most skin friendly for my Swedish framebacks.

Go figure.

Though ALL these stones provide for a fine shaving razor, they're all highly capable and deliver good edges, I've come to that point where they all feel similar with little differences and nuances to each stone.

Years ago when I was Coticule obsessed, (the forum was Coticule obsessed then) and I was trying to get a Coticule edge to shave like a burnished Ark, I leaned on the BBW and went down the BBW/French Hone path and I always felt there was a wide range of BBW’s and edge potential.

With naturals, more so than with synthetics, different steel and grids lend themselves to tailored naturals and technique.

Honing on a dry stone, will cause the swarf to fill between the grits and polish more on the tops of the grit, microscopically and produce a finer polish. Conversely honing under running water can cause some stones, primarily naturals to hone more aggressively, Jnats and Coticules, by washing out the slurry and grit.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Honing on a dry stone, will cause the swarf to fill between the grits and polish more on the tops of the grit, microscopically and produce a finer polish. Conversely honing under running water can cause some stones, primarily naturals to hone more aggressively, Jnats and Coticules, by washing out the slurry and grit.

Yes! I've come to that very same conclusion so I can totally confirm this. The more I use them dry, the better they 'fill the stone' the nicer the finish.

My great-grandfather's Coticule and BBW side were heavily used and totally glazed over/burnished and darkened, super smooth to the point I couldn't even see the texture in it anymore. Must've been a helluva finish, alas I lapped the stone because I didn't know better, would not do that again if I could do it over.

My skin with my BBW edges are the best I ever had. I'm surprised. And the edges are as sharp as I ever had. Very good stone.
I give it a very good stropping on cotton or linen and onto leather, these things are wicked sharp and VERY easy shaving, delivers a keenness that surpasses even my 20K.

Tristan:
Do you do anything special to re-burnish the BBW's that you are using?

Originally Posted by FranfC

Tristan:
Do you do anything special to re-burnish the BBW's that you are using?

Not really, just rubbing some razors on it.


However, I have no honest clue how my great-grandfather got his stone so glazed/burnished, aside from maybe a lifetime's use. I'm starting to think oil might've been involved

To conclude my findings I've tried another BBW: wow! I have always used natural combo coti/bbw stones, but now used a sole BBW.

About a decade ago I purchased a sole BBW from Ardennes after the Coticule community did a blind BBW vs Coti study/test, with surprising results at that time!

I asked for them to send me a BBW that would be suitable to hone razors on, turns out that they send me an outstanding stone.
It contains purple dots and I was told that's a sign of a very good Blue Belgian stone.

Not giving the stone much attention for the past year(s), I decided to give it another shot.
Due to inexperience I didn't have much success with it in the past, the whole slurry thing never gave me the edges I wanted. And I went the synthetic route afterwards.

Gave the stone another shot, dry, and yup! Outstanding edge, probably the best out of all my BBWs.

No idea what vein it is, but I can confirm that the purple dots gave an accurate indication that this BBW seems to be of the highest quality.
Keenness: unrivaled, it shaves better than my 20K. But it's much smoother and easier on my skin.

What can I say, I'm very surprised.

All this time I couldn't get anything shave worthy out of these stones and now they deliver my best edges, ever.
I'll be damned!


I can't recall who mentioned this on this forum, so I paraphrase what he said:
Basically someone has said that when speaking to his old local barber he mentioned that the Coti side is nice, but the BBW is the magical side.

Somehow that stuck with me and I must say I agree.

Dammit! I don't own a BBW and don't need another stone but... now I need at BBW. If I end up divorced I'm going to place the blame squarely on Tristan.

My last shave was not from a Swedish frameback and was finished on the 20K dry.

Damn, that edge was like butter.

I'm not sure if either it wasn't as keen as the BBW or because of the difference in the grind compared to my Heljestrand framebacks I usually shave with.
I felt it was missing that slight bit of extra "cutting power", but smoothness wise is was absolutely maxed out and left nothing to be desired, buttery. I have noticed in previous shaves that my Cotis and 20K don't get as keen / sharp as with the BBW.

That said, I'm very eager to do another side by side BBW frameback vs 20K frameback on these stones that are now a little more glazed / burnished than at the beginning, the results are very good.

As with my BBWs and Cotis, I like my edges (much) better off the 20K dry. I can't explain, but they're smoother and shave easier when I use these stones dry.

One of the explanations I read for the smoothness off a dry stone involved the idea that the swarf and fine grit from the stone was filling any pores on the surface of the stone. With water, this would have been washed off as you dilute the slurry. As a result, you get more of a polishing effect rather than a “grinding” of the bevel. That seems to fit with the notion of a smoother shave with maybe a bit of a loss in keen from the edge.