Thread: A couple of quetions about hones

Originally Posted by STF

I need a bit of help here Mike.

I was of the understanding that where the two sides of a razor meet is called the edge or apex. The better that edge the sharper the razor is.

When you say crisp, I think sharp so I am having trouble understanding too crisp or sharp, is not as sharp as possible the ultimate goal?

I understand going to a natural afterwards, I want to go to my Arkie but I can't help thinking that taking a super sharp crisp edge and going to a natural to smooth it is actually another way of saying make it a bit blunter.

Surely an if an edge is very sharp and works, adding anything else would just diminish it?

You da man so I know I am wrong but I would appreciate some help to get my head around it.

That's one way of looking at it. Still it is not necessarily a bad thing. It's a preference and based on your skin and beard, and your shave and honing technique. A lot of "harsh" is actually just "sharp". A lot of "mild" is really "dull", but it isn't a 100% thing at all. You can have a very sharp edge that, if properly used, will give you a very comfortable shave.

Its hard for me to explain, Steve. But I'll try.

Its not a matter of sharp or dull, because their equally, sharp. It's more a matter of how refined the fin of the apex is. ( the very tip/cutting edge )

Synthetic hones have a very consistent grit makeup, thru out the hone. Where naturals, typically don't.

Synthetics don't burnish, and keep cutting. More so, if slurried. Where a natural slurry, will brake down, and slow in its cutting ability, as you dilute it to just water and the stone, itself. Hence fourth, not creating such a fine fin, as a synthetic.

There's sharp, and there's also.....too sharp.

One is comfortable.... The other is not.!

Its what we all seek, for ourselves, and our face.
Yours will be different than mine.

Gasman knows about sharp, and too sharp.

He likes a crisp edge. So I honed one for him, like I do for myself, and was told it wasn't what he liked. I sent another that I finished off a Chinese synthetic, that would take an edge way beyond comfort, and it did.!

The edge looked beautiful, even under magnification. But was a banshee, once turned loose on your face.

It's going to take a lot a time, to reach the level of honing that some of us have here, buddy. Be vigilant, but know your limitations.

As has been told to you by Glen, you already have the tools necessary, for a great edge. Learn how to use the tools at hand, and how to get the most from them.

Steve....I used one hone, for everything I honed, including my personal razors, for most my life. I didn't learn about all the other hones, used for particular purposes, until I joined this forum.

The knowledge I gained from learning how to max out that single hone for so many years, made it so easy for me to use other hones.

I'm 52yrs. old, this year. I've been putting steel n stone together, since I was 7. Still always something to learn.

As a matter of fact, the last 10 or 12 razors I've honed, were needing total edge restoration. ( bevel set - finishing )
I did all, without the use of magnification. Only one, didn't pass the shave test.

Steel n stone.....together they speak to us. Listen and you can hear their words.

In short...with experience, and using the same hones in your progression, all the time. You'll be able to feel what is happening on each hone during the honing process.

It was a way for me to test my own abilities, and even more rewarding when I look at those edges in my loupe, after a great shave. They always look better, than the ones I kept checking thru the honing session.

Patience... Young grasshopper..

Steve,

If you really want to get into this from a scientific perspective with scanning electron microscope images and lots of technical jargon, take a look here: https://scienceofsharp.com/2014/01/2...tifying-sharp/

Grab a coffee, tea, beer, whatever and spend a few hours. It’s a good read.

Sharp is easy. Sharp and comfortable is the trick. And the point that knife guys fight because that is what they know.

Sharp is how knives and tools are sharpened. Wood, vegies, and meat, do not complain and a micro serrated edge is a good thing.

If your glass is full it is hard to add new knowledge.

You, need to learn to set a bevel, you have the tools, you have been told how, you just need to empty you glass a bit to allow the information in.

Sharp and comfortable. The way I look at it, once you finish your shave, let's say you got BBS, great. How does the skin feel. How does it feel 1 hour after the shave. My goal for a perfect shave is, it feels like I didnt shave.

So here is a collection of my Dad's razor hones. The quarter is for scale.


I think I'm probably in Dutch with the Mrs. for getting all that slurry all over the table.
Funny, he had this thing about keeping things in the original box. He had a Craftsman electric impact driver that he brought with us from Atlanta to Florida in 1973. When we moved him and my mother back here from Jacksonville in 2014 he still had it in the box. God I miss him.

Anyway, the big block I don't really remember him using much. He got it with a sharpening business he bought in about '74. He told my brother and I not to use it for knives or tools because it was for razors but he always preferred the 2 barber hones. When I got them they were bellied like crazy but he used them just that way for all the honing he did. Honestly I only remember a few razors.comared.to the thousands of saw blades and knives that he did. He ran a rout to construction sites and would drop them back off sharpened. He also went to barbershops and salons but mostly that was scissors but he did do razors also. By that time more barbers were using Weck and other trimmer type razors with replaceable blades. Still he always seemed to use the A.Goodrich (on the left) and occasionally the Romo Fast Cut (2 sided on the right) probably if it needed bevel work and not just finishing. If I recall he did thumb pad test and he had cloth for testing but I might be getting that mixed up with the scissors (He was very adamant not to EVER use paper to test your scissors or a knife on) because I know for certain he used it for scissors.
I know that was a long sentimental journey but it was all to say that those two stones were all he ever used and possibly that big one. I think he didn't like that one because he couldn't easily hold it in his hand. Also they were the only stones that I used for years, really until I joined this forum here too like Mike. In fact I kind of had to unlearn some things and knock some stuff out of my head with a hammer because no one ever showed me besides my dad who kind of did but I was really young and I think he was afraid for me to mess around with them very much for fear I would cut myself badly. What I knew I learned basically on my own from remembering what I saw him do. What is the moral of this long, long, LOONNNGGGG story? You could hone a razor on a smooth brick and get a good shave if you know how to do it. And you don't need a bunch of them. That's what I've been working on with that giant two-sided brick I've got: single stone honing. Sure, equipment figures in but it's mainly about knowing your equipment. I know I'm contradicting myself here but that's one thing you might want to add to your collection ( even though you don't really need it) is a barber hone. In fact I think I have one for you. Let me check and I'll let you know.

Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

Sure, equipment figures in but it's mainly about knowing your equipment. I know I'm contradicting myself here but that's one thing you might want to add to your collection ( even though you don't really need it) is a barber hone. In fact I think I have one for you. Let me check and I'll let you know.

Thank you Paul, I have listened to you and everyone here, some of which are very respected Honers tell me in no uncertain term that I already have everything I need to hone my razors and make some scary edges if I practice and learn the stones i have already.

Saying that, shortly after starting with straights, my first and best razor started to pull. It wasn't the end of the world because Outback had generously ensured that I had some extra razors.

My best and first razor (Dovo Astrale 5/8 round point) started pulling after only about 20 shaves and I was surprised how quickly it went. I was assured at the time that 20 days was not particularly unusual especially for a new shaver.

Looking back I think my stropping technique was probably not helping me much either.

I was about to send my new Dovo away when DZEC generously sent me a barbers hone. I didn't know anything about them so I did some research and watched some YouTube vids, especially one by gssixgun on how to use a barber hone.

I figured out which side was fine and gave my Dovo six laps on it. I was astounded at what a difference it made, my razor felt new to me again!

I have to admit that I haven't used it since getting my hones but I will be taking it when and if I need to travel because I was very impressed.

Thank you Paul for offering to send me a Barbers Hone, it's very kind and generous of you but as you can tell I do already have one.

I don't know the grits and I don't think any Barbers Hone had a published grit rating and also I don't know the manufacturer or quality but I am pleased with it. Saying that, I have been reading some very old posts about Barbers Hones on here and it would seem that most people that have a Barbers Hone have a few.

I don't know if it is necessary to have more than one, probably not but I do find them intriguing and would definitely consider a Franz Swaty 3 line for travelling if I could establish what is so good about them and whether it would be any better than the one I have and that impresses me a lot.

I wouldn't use a Barbers Hone for normal touch ups, not yet anyway because I want to become very good with my Nortons and the 12K Naniwa ss. I am not using my Arkies anymore just yet for the same reason. When I become a honing beast with my synths it should be easier as Outback said to move to other synths or Naturals.

Here is what I have and love, thanks to DZEC.

Steve, I’m glad you figured out that barber hone and that it works for you.

Originally Posted by DZEC

Steve, I’m glad you figured out that barber hone and that it works for you.

I never did send my razor away, it became unnecessary after you sent the Barbers Hone. Thanks again.

I did kill the edge on my best razor and try to reset the bevel and hone it up in the last few months!

OMG I thought i had ruined my best razor because it just would not get sharp, I was nearly in tears.

It is honed and shaving excellently now because I learned a very important lesson that will benefit all new honers.

There is a lot of information out there, even on this forum. It almost certainly all works well but a new honer like myself needs to choose a honer to follow and stick with him. If a person tries to take every bodies advice at the same time he might as well just send the razor out because learning to hone will be an exercise in frustration and futility.

That is my experience anyway.

“Thank you Paul, I have listened to you and everyone here, some of which are very respected Honers tell me in no uncertain term that I already have everything I need to hone my razors and make some scary edges if I practice and learn the stones i have already.”

You are missing the point.

If you “practice” do the same thing expecting a different result, you will just trash more razors.

That is a nice barber hone, but it and ones like that are responsible for ruining more razor than dropping them. Well, really not the barber hone, how they were used/ mis-used.

Learn how to set a bevel. Learn how to hone a warped razor. Learn how to correct a heel so that a razor will sit flat on the hone. There are no magic hones, more “magic hones” are not the answer.

And stop whining.

Seriously dude, I am trying to help you. In case you have not noticed many others have already given up long ago.