Thread: Two Shapton 8000 Glass Options?

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I distinctly remember both Harrelson and Howard saying that the glass stones are a different formula from the Pro stones. I believe it was both abrasive and binder.

Now you guys quit knocking the Pro stones ..... how am I going to get my money out of them when I go to sell them now that I am in love with the Naniwa Superstones ?

Sorry Jimmy. They're great. They're wonderful. They come in pretty colors.

Originally Posted by tcharah

HI! I've to read this post severall times due to some "technical" words that i didnt understand..like resolving a puzzle . Sometimes its very hard for me, and i believe for others to keep up and understand what other members are talking. Maybe im going to start doing a "dictionary"..starting with the basics WTG - with the grain..that i taked a while to know what it means..lol!

The "dictionary" has already been done for you in the Wiki.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I am going to try and say this nicely OK, but it seems that to many "Other Sharpeners" are deciding what works on razors lately...

Agreed. I haven't seen Harrelson's video, but I find it find of bizarre that he made a video of his first razor honing experience. I'd much rather see a video of his 1000th honing--but only then if test shaved each one.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I am going to try and say this nicely OK, but it seems that to many "Other Sharpeners" are deciding what works on razors lately...
This would be like me going on the Woodworkers and Knife forums and telling them my opinions on stones and techniques, it would not hold water there just like their opinion on what works on razors doesn't hold water here....

Maybe so but if those of us who are hone freaks couldn't discuss this stuff why even have a forum ? If people who are enthusiasts didn't try new stuff and comment on it we all would be using Norton starter set and there wouldn't be any further discussion.

That is why I sent the pro set to Ron to get his assessment. To further the discussion .... between him and me if nobody else. There is also the different strokes for different folks factor.

Taking into consideration that your 300 razors is twice as many as I have honed in my life it is less then Lynn hones in a week. I happen to like the Shapton Pros and would recommend them if I was asked. I like the Naniwas better but it is apples and oranges.

My amount of experience is less then others but it is what it is and I feel that no one should be discouraged from voicing their opinions based on their experience such as it is. That is one way the less experienced learn from those who have more.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

300 razors and am very impressed with the results !!!!


Yeah I am going to plus 1 with Lynn here

I am going to try and say this nicely OK, but it seems that to many "Other Sharpeners" are deciding what works on razors lately...
This would be like me going on the Woodworkers and Knife forums and telling them my opinions on stones and techniques, it would not hold water there just like their opinion on what works on razors doesn't hold water here....

steel is steel; you cannot change that.
When some manufacturer begins making high-tech razor hones...maybe we will try them on jo-shiko.

Actually razors give one a much more intimate view, a feel to associate with a look in the loupe. I have had to "go back" often when using the pros. I figured it was part of the learning curve.

I am going to point out something here OK...

Here is the opening premise of the OP.....

I had an interesting conversation with Harrelson Stanley, who many of you may know already(A big time Shapton Dude for those who don't) and he gave me some information on the glass stones I was unaware of. In our conversation, I told him my some concers I had with the 16000 glass stone, and how while it was great on some A2 steels, I thought it was leaving intermitant deep scratches on razors for it's grit.( I also asked him if I won a 30000 for any reason and just got really quiet) I did not ask him because it functionally was not up to task, but that it did leave stray scratches on the bevel, and I did not believe IMHO that it was cause my abilities getting it to it's potential. Here is what he basically told me(after I had once again asked him if he was sure I did not win the 30000) Harrelson said that the 16000 was not recommended for razors as it was indeed designed for modern steels e.g. A2 and others. That the 16000 was too aggressive for the old carbon steels but the progression should leave out the 16000 all together, even if honing up to 30000. He recommended the Japanese version (glass not pro series, nothing to do with pro series at all) of the 8000 was softer and that was a much better option for razors specifically.


Here is the answer of the busiest Honemiester on here

I am so lost here guys.....

I have used the white Shapton Glass Stones from 220 to 30K on about 2,000 old, new, carbon, stainless and damascus razors and they worked fine.

Then you have me who is probably the number two or three busiest, not sure who hones more either me or Don but both of us use Shaptons...
Saying the exact same thing, Hmmmm wonder what Don would say here too????

If you go back and read most of the Shapton honing threads you are going to find a consensus of most people that use them...Almost everyone using Shapton's consider the 16k to be the best stone of the series so the premise goes against everything that the majority of Shapton users has found to be true when honing RAZORS!!!

So do you see where my problem comes from here ?????

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Maybe so but if those of us who are hone freaks couldn't discuss this stuff why even have a forum ? If people who are enthusiasts didn't try new stuff and comment on it we all would be using Norton starter set and there wouldn't be any further discussion.

That is why I sent the pro set to Ron to get his assessment. To further the discussion .... between him and me if nobody else. There is also the different strokes for different folks factor.

Taking into consideration that your 300 razors is twice as many as I have honed in my life it is less then Lynn hones in a week. I happen to like the Shapton Pros and would recommend them if I was asked. I like the Naniwas better but it is apples and oranges.

My amount of experience is less then others but it is what it is and I feel that no one should be discouraged from voicing their opinions based on their experience such as it is. That is one way the less experienced learn from those who have more.

I am with you 100% on why we are contributing, but don't goa knockin my nortons, I still have my 8000/4000 combo bisected longitudanaly(cut in half) And I still maintain, them Nortons are right up there. The 8000/4000 IMHO that is a masterpiece. If I had any complaint is they load too quickly, but they have been with me ever since they came out and don't plan on getting rid of them, ever! I gots a few.
The old pros have all kinds of longevity issues and they do as pointed out raise a slurry in a hurry but that also means the surface is changing quick.

Mike

Glen,

Perhaps you are able to hear the banging of my head against the wall of my honarium all the way out west. It sounds that grit size ain't grit size, a fine hone leaves deep scratches, hone A2 steel on this one, this hone wasn't meant for razors, this one might work for razors...

What's the hone challenged shaver to do?

It's getting so bad my coticule is starting to get all choked up. I'm waiting for a torrent of tears. Hmmm... maybe then I won't need to give it that pre-hone bath. Yup, there it goes; all I had to do it mutter Shapton over it 16 times.

Hey, thanks guys. SRP to the rescue once again.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I am going to point out something here OK...

Here is the opening premise of the OP.....

I had an interesting conversation with Harrelson Stanley, who many of you may know already(A big time Shapton Dude for those who don't) and he gave me some information on the glass stones I was unaware of. In our conversation, I told him my some concers I had with the 16000 glass stone, and how while it was great on some A2 steels, I thought it was leaving intermitant deep scratches on razors for it's grit.( I also asked him if I won a 30000 for any reason and just got really quiet) I did not ask him because it functionally was not up to task, but that it did leave stray scratches on the bevel, and I did not believe IMHO that it was cause my abilities getting it to it's potential. Here is what he basically told me(after I had once again asked him if he was sure I did not win the 30000) Harrelson said that the 16000 was not recommended for razors as it was indeed designed for modern steels e.g. A2 and others. That the 16000 was too aggressive for the old carbon steels but the progression should leave out the 16000 all together, even if honing up to 30000. He recommended the Japanese version (glass not pro series, nothing to do with pro series at all) of the 8000 was softer and that was a much better option for razors specifically.


Here is the answer of the busiest Honemiester on here

I am so lost here guys.....

I have used the white Shapton Glass Stones from 220 to 30K on about 2,000 old, new, carbon, stainless and damascus razors and they worked fine.

Then you have me who is probably the number two or three busiest, not sure who hones more either me or Don but both of us use Shaptons...
Saying the exact same thing, Hmmmm wonder what Don would say here too????

If you go back and read most of the Shapton honing threads you are going to find a consensus of most people that use them...Almost everyone using Shapton's consider the 16k to be the best stone of the series so the premise goes against everything that the majority of Shapton users has found to be true when honing RAZORS!!!

So do you see where my problem comes from here ?????

Let me explain the point. I only have glass up to 16000 and at that level on razors I voiced a specific concern about stray scratches appearing in the bevel. I know they are acceptable to some degree, but what is the point of refining the bevel to that level and getting grooves running with all you hard work. Yes at that point you guys are still giving a great product, but i was just wondering why, that is when he told Harrelson told me the best progression is Jp8000 then 30000 and that the 16000 is only going to getin the way on carbon steel of razors. I am not suggesting anthying for you to do different as your techniques and feel at each level tell you when the bevel is ready for the next stone.
Mike

Originally Posted by Kingfish

Let me explain the point. I only have glass up to 16000 and at that level on razors I voiced a specific concern about stray scratches appearing in the bevel. I know they are acceptable to some degree, but what is the point of refining the bevel to that level and getting grooves running with all you hard work. Yes at that point you guys are still giving a great product, but i was just wondering why, that is when he told Harrelson told me the best progression is Jp8000 then 30000 and that the 16000 is only going to getin the way on carbon steel of razors. I am not suggesting anthying for you to do different as your techniques and feel at each level tell you when the bevel is ready for the next stone.
Mike

I am still lost on this recommendation. I have tried this variation a few times and it is extremely unpredictable. I find the key to really getting the 30K to work consistently is using 5-7 strokes (usually under 10 and in a lot of cases sticking with the 5). I know Don likes the backstroke on the 30K but still uses a minimum of strokes too. When I have tried going from the 8K, It has been maybe 20 or 30 strokes and not consistent and a bunch I had to go back to the lower hone on.

Lynn

Originally Posted by Kingfish

Let me explain the point. I only have glass up to 16000 and at that level on razors I voiced a specific concern about stray scratches appearing in the bevel. I know they are acceptable to some degree, but what is the point of refining the bevel to that level and getting grooves running with all you hard work. Yes at that point you guys are still giving a great product, but i was just wondering why, that is when he told Harrelson told me the best progression is Jp8000 then 30000 and that the 16000 is only going to getin the way on carbon steel of razors. I am not suggesting anthying for you to do different as your techniques and feel at each level tell you when the bevel is ready for the next stone.
Mike

OK Now you just totally confused me on this whole thread, are you actually trying to say that the errent scratches found in a bevel, although they have no effect whatsoever on the shaving ability of the razor are caused, because the Shapton 16k is not made for razors because Harelson (I have honed 3 razors) Stanley said so...???

I gotta ask??? Have you ever looked at the bevel after you strop on Linen & Leather?????
Or better yet have you looked at the bevel after using a Coticule... or a Japanese natural????
There are these little tiny pieces of grit that roll around on stones that every now and then actually leave a tiny scratch on the bevel...

Better yet why am I even bothering, if Harellson thinks that the 16k GS is no good for razors I guess maybe we should all ask for a refund from Shapton on our stones???? and tell them Harellson sent us????

You guys are confusing me on this one

Originally Posted by gssixgun

(...)That the 16000 was too aggressive for the old carbon steels but the progression should leave out the 16000 all together, even if honing up to 30000. He recommended the Japanese version (glass not pro series, nothing to do with pro series at all) of the 8000 was softer and that was a much better option for razors specifically.


(...)

If you go back and read most of the Shapton honing threads you are going to find a consensus of most people that use them...Almost everyone using Shapton's consider the 16k to be the best stone of the series so the premise goes against everything that the majority of Shapton users has found to be true when honing RAZORS!!!

So do you see where my problem comes from here ?????

So do you advise me to buy 16000? I was in the eminence of buying this set of Shapton Glass stones: 1000 (or 2000), 4000, 8000, 16000.. But after reading all this i dont know if i should invest my money in a 16000 (?)
Leon has one and he said to me that is a nice stone to give that "finish" touch to a razor. But i also read in the SRP about members that said the 16000 didn't work on the Le Grelot's for example! They have mentioned that they stoped in the 8000 and the razor was in the best shave ready possible, and if they pass to the 16000 it will ruin it!
Im so confuse! I know that only trying is the best way to know whats best / result for us and the razor - differen't razors, differen't behaviours right? - but its a lot of money..