Thread: Dedicated Bevel Setting ....

I've got one of the DMT green Extra-Fine hones (larger) and at 9 micron it is, or should be, less agressive to metal than say 1K would be. I have an old "FINE" DMT from years of use and I used to use it to start with, but it is way down the list for grit, something probably like 650 or so. But, it's been used so much over all these years that it seems kind of worn down. Like I said, I wold think the 9 micron diamon DMT would work well if it were rubbed a bit with a slurry stone tnad wront down just a bit.

Originally Posted by Gibbs

I've got one of the DMT green Extra-Fine hones (larger) and at 9 micron it is, or should be, less agressive to metal than say 1K would be.

The EF is rated by DMT as 1200, but because of the abrasive it uses, I find it to be more aggressive than any 1k I have ever used.

I think that a lot of people under estimate the importance of bevel setting. Now I know that different things work for different people and what I do is probably overkill for most honers but I use a DMT600, a Shapton Ceramic Pro 1k and then a Shapton Ceramic Pro 2k.

Hmm...

I'm just about to run out the door, but if any of you are willing to wait until this evening/tomorrow, I'll be able to provide some food for thought on #1000 grit stones/plates.

I've only got 19 or so of them, all thoroughly tested, most with documentation and a mostly written up explanation (4 parts) of the findings.


I'm quite sure some will not agree with what I've found, but that's ok.

(Especially when the Chosera doesn't even rank in the top 5 without even taking into account it's price. Sorry.)


Stu.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Honing is all about the bevel
Getting the bevel set is 90% of the work
Bevel, bevel, bevel
It really is all about the bevel

Those are just a few I am sure I have said a few more

So if it really is all about the bevel, then here is a rundown of Bevel setters I have personally used or own...

Norton 1k "The King" the "30-06 of bevel setters" IMHO everything else is compared to this hone everything is either faster or slower than the Norton 1k, it either cuts smoother or deeper then the Norton 1k... This is a workhorse hone, although considered by some to be on the soft side, personally I don't really think that is a factor at Razor honing pressure...This is one of two 1k stones that is always soaking in water in my Shave Den.... Let's leave the Norton 1k as the standard to judge the others by so if I say fast or smooth it is compared to a Norton 1k ...

Shapton GS 1k Fast, smooth cutter leaves no deep scratches, but not a hone that I would look at for a dedicated bevel setter, I look at this hone as part of the Shapton system....

Naniwa SS 1k Smooth, rather than fast, great feedback, but again I would not consider this a hone to go buy as a dedicated bevel setter, but rather as part of a Naniwa honing system...

DMT 1200 Fast, accurate,and no maintenance, but a deep cutter, this plate leaves scratches that take extra work to pull out at the next level...

King 1k Smooth rather than fast, this is a great hone to use on full hollows as it leaves a very smooth finish but it is not my choice for wedges, this hone sits soaking in my shave den next to the Norton 1k... Also a plus for this hone, is it is Economical and Available in many places locally...

Japanese Ato I have only used this once to set a bevel, it is not a option I would use often, but as a niche system for people that want a full natural Japanese progression it does work and it works pretty good...

Chosera 1k Expensive, but honestly this one is probably the best dedicated bevel setter I have used, in fact I waited to do this write up until after I had used this hone on a few SS razors to make sure it worked all around...

Yellow Coticule Again a niche system, this is usable for mild bevel setting but not a serious option for heavy lifting...

Any of the 2k-4k Synthetics using a Nagura or slurry, Again these like a Coticule can be pressed into service to set a mild bevel but are not good options for a dedicated bevel setter that needs to do heavy cutting...

Natural finishers with slurry, Usable to a certain degree on mild bevel setting but these are "make do" systems and not a dedicated bevel setter they do however leave a very smooth bevel

Please understand that I am not saying that many of the slurry systems will not work, but I do not consider them a dedicated system for setting bevels....

1k Wet-r-Dry Sandpaper, Yes you can, yes it does work, but it cuts deep into the steel, so it can be a bear and a waste of steel to get the bevel smooth again.. This is especially noticeable on full hollows


Some things I did not mention,

Glazing and/or Loading of the hone/stones I consider this as a non-issue every razor starts with a clean surface in my house I do about 5 figure 8's with a 325 lapping plate before each razor touches the surface....

Dishing or softness issues, again a non-issue in my house because of the figure 8's and I think these are greatly exaggerated as the pressure we use with honing razors should not create dishing anyway...

Lower then 1k hones, I left these out because I consider that to be restoration and not part of honing, that is what I do before I set the bevel

Do you even need a dedicated bevel setter ??? really only you can answer that, what I can say is that starting a razor off with a clean, sharp, even, bevel will greatly improve your chances of honing succes...


Please feel free to add your experiences with your bevel setting adventures, however please keep in the back of your mind I am talking about setting bevels here.. As in dedicated bevel setter, not I set the bevel on my brand new Dovo (ie: mild bevel setting), but I ripped the steel on a beat up E-bay W&B wedge can it do the heavy lifting???

Glen,
So your saying that setting the bevel is really important? (lol)

Well that is the end of that! I am going to pull the trigger on a Chosera 1k. I have a Shapton 1K it does the job but has a very sloppy feel to it, if that makes sense.

Thanks for the post Glen it really just hit me that my bevels, while adequate, just do not meet the high standards that I have come to expect from the rest of my progression.

Take Care,
Richard

I guess it doesn't make sense to me. Which Shapton 1k do you have?

I don't have the Chosera 1k, but I've got the 600 and 800 and really like the way they are more aggressive but do not leave deep scratches, making it easy to move up to, and quickly past, a 1k hone.

I have the standard Shapton 1K glass not the pro. I am not getting much cutting action for what I would think a 1K should be. I have watched the progress with a 30X loupe and it is very slow.

R

Originally Posted by riooso

I have the standard Shapton 1K glass not the pro. I am not getting much cutting action for what I would think a 1K should be. I have watched the progress with a 30X loupe and it is very slow.

R

A Shapton Glass Stone and a Shapton Professional are two completely different animals...

The Chosera will work better than the Glass Stone, but at the same time, the Professional will take the Glass Stone outside and teach it a lesson or three.


Here's a suggestion you might try. I've not ever done it with a Glass Stone since I reckon they're a lost cause, but it's a trick that can usually coax increased performance out of any stone. When I bother to give the Glass Stones another going over, I'll give this a try to see what happens myself, I don't expect anything different to what is described below.

Take a diamond plate of any size, a scotchbrite pad, a piece of wet and dry sandpaper, anything that you can scrub the Glass Stone with without leaving anything behind. Not another stone like a nagura please unless you know it's of the same or finer grit than the stone it's being used on.

Scrub the surface of the stone, focusing most of those areas that you don't use when sharpening. Make sure there's at least a film of water on the stone, not standing water. Create a thin slurry on the stone and use that to do the work.

Keep the slurry on the stone, work it around as much as you can and try to maintain consistency by adding only a little water at a time. Water on the blade from a rinse is usually enough to maintain the slurry. If the slurry goes black, good. If the slurry starts to create sticky areas, then work the liquid slurry into those areas to break them up and back off the pressure a little.

You're not aiming for mud like what comes out of a King stone or similar, just an artificially created slurry like watered down milk. It should speed things up without any detrimental side effects and allow you to at least get some use from the Glass Stone, and buying yourself some time to at least try something else (if possible) before you need to replace it.

The abrasive in the Glass Stones is good stuff, the problem is the binder which (I think) holds onto the abrasive for a little longer than what is good for it. Get some of that good abrasive out of the binder and make it do some useful work, and you might be pleasantly surprised.

If no good comes of it, hey, it didn't cost you anything but a little time.

Good luck, and do please let us know how it works out if you try it.

Stu.

I'm surprised to hear that. I have the same hone and I find it's a very fast cutter, certainly on a par with the Chosera 1k.

The only thing I've noticed is it tends to glaze slightly faster than the Chosera but other than that it's a great stone I've found.

If I had to give away all my stones I'd keep the 1/4/8/16k Shaptons and my J-Nat. With that set up I can get a great edge on pretty much anything!

How recently did you lap your Shapton?