Thread: Dedicated Bevel Setting ....

Since Schtoo declared in his first post that he does not shave with a straight, yes I think the assumption is correct that his experience is related to tool sharpening. We're going have to convince him to try a razor!

The suspense is killing me!

Originally Posted by Harvitz81

Yeah, after posting that last night I thought if this is for knives than that is a different story. Whereas I know the Bester's are highly regarded for knives, you don't see them mentioned much for straights.

I have tried the Bester 2k on razors. Likes ,very hard,large & fast stone ~~ Dislikes , very thirsty & the one I tried felt like it had an odd sized particle in the surface that always felt like a bump even after lapping. Possibly not a fault of the stone as it was used. Overall I was considering a full set but they only went to 2k at the time.
I agree with Ron tho Schtoo must convert to straights... or even bent blades

I will sift through it tonight, but I will warn you that a link to a vending site is not allowed unless you are an approved vendor. For that reason you probably will have to do a "workaround."

Regarding your statement razor honing will be easy because of your tool honing experience, that may or may not work out for you right away. The forum has encountered many (seriously, many) people who have made the same "a blade is a blade" comment and then they struggled making their razor comfortable. Hopefully you will be an exception.

A very good comparison at first sight, I will read it fully when I have the time to. But looking at the diagrams and testing, I don't think it will be good for judging them for straights.

Yeah, I suspected as much.

The blog is stand alone, but it's linked into the store as well. Perhaps it's ok, perhaps not. I'm sure I'll find out soon enough.

I very much dislike doing a hard sell at any time for any reason. Even when questions come in through my little store, I can't do a hard sell. I just let folks know what's what, and let them make their own decision. When the posted rules of a forum state that one must not link to their own selling site, I've never gotten a warning for it before and really hoping to not attract my first here.

A work around would be a nightmare, and if it was needed, the wait might be a very, very long one.


I must say it is interesting how different forums react to those who sell things. I suppoe it boils down to what past experiences have been on that forum.


A blade is a blade? Nope, not really. Learned that from working over knives after woodworking tools. What works well for a knife may be terrible for a tool, and vise versa but that's more feeling and preference.

There just isn't enough metal in a razor to start running into the problems that putting 4-6 square inches of hard steel on a stone does. But at the same time, what that much hard steel does to a stone is vastly different to what a very small surface area will enact. Some stones don't care one way or another, others get all uppity at either end of the scale, be it lots of metal or a little. Obvious example of this is how well liked Naniwa Superstones are here with razors, but how largely inadequate they are with anything other than microbevels with tools. I like Superstones, but there's no way in the world they're "fast".


We shall see what happens when I stick a razor on stone.

(I got no surprises when I put knives to stone, all warnings to the contrary, which is why I'm not expecting anything unusual with razors. Different, yes? Completely off the wall different? Not really.)

Wish me luck!

Stu.

I dont have any of the bevel setting stones you guys mentioned above, but when i had my first straight razor i did the newbie thing and hit it off the faucet.

I only had a lansky knife sharpening stone set so i took the 1000 to work out the chip, after that i sent it out to get fixed since i knew i couldnt do much with it .

Originally Posted by Schtoo

The blog is stand alone, but it's linked into the store as well. Perhaps it's ok, perhaps not. I'm sure I'll find out soon enough.

Your post linking to the blog has been pulled for review by the mod team. Whether it will be restored remains to be seen. For those of us who are obsessed enough with this sport to have multiple bevel setters it seems the 1k Chosera is the most popular for those who have tried it. I have used the Shapton Pro 1 & 2k, Norton 1k, Naniwa 1k and finally the Chosera 1k. The Chosera is now my go to bevel setter. I don't even think twice. Only for razors though. I have no experience in sharpening tools. As with all aspects of wet shaving honing is a YMMV pursuit.

Originally Posted by Schtoo

(I got no surprises when I put knives to stone, all warnings to the contrary, which is why I'm not expecting anything unusual with razors. Different, yes? Completely off the wall different? Not really.)

Wish me luck!

Stu.

Surely the differences are not off the wall but their consequences to the edge, spine wear & the final shave can be.
Best of luck & I bet you get as addicted as the rest of us

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Honing is all about the bevel
Getting the bevel set is 90% of the work
Bevel, bevel, bevel
It really is all about the bevel

Those are just a few I am sure I have said a few more

So if it really is all about the bevel, then here is a rundown of Bevel setters I have personally used or own...

Norton 1k "The King" the "30-06 of bevel setters" IMHO everything else is compared to this hone everything is either faster or slower than the Norton 1k, it either cuts smoother or deeper then the Norton 1k... This is a workhorse hone, although considered by some to be on the soft side, personally I don't really think that is a factor at Razor honing pressure...This is one of two 1k stones that is always soaking in water in my Shave Den.... Let's leave the Norton 1k as the standard to judge the others by so if I say fast or smooth it is compared to a Norton 1k ...

Shapton GS 1k Fast, smooth cutter leaves no deep scratches, but not a hone that I would look at for a dedicated bevel setter, I look at this hone as part of the Shapton system....

Naniwa SS 1k Smooth, rather than fast, great feedback, but again I would not consider this a hone to go buy as a dedicated bevel setter, but rather as part of a Naniwa honing system...

DMT 1200 Fast, accurate,and no maintenance, but a deep cutter, this plate leaves scratches that take extra work to pull out at the next level...

King 1k Smooth rather than fast, this is a great hone to use on full hollows as it leaves a very smooth finish but it is not my choice for wedges, this hone sits soaking in my shave den next to the Norton 1k... Also a plus for this hone, is it is Economical and Available in many places locally...

Japanese Ato I have only used this once to set a bevel, it is not a option I would use often, but as a niche system for people that want a full natural Japanese progression it does work and it works pretty good...

Chosera 1k Expensive, but honestly this one is probably the best dedicated bevel setter I have used, in fact I waited to do this write up until after I had used this hone on a few SS razors to make sure it worked all around...

Yellow Coticule Again a niche system, this is usable for mild bevel setting but not a serious option for heavy lifting...

Any of the 2k-4k Synthetics using a Nagura or slurry, Again these like a Coticule can be pressed into service to set a mild bevel but are not good options for a dedicated bevel setter that needs to do heavy cutting...

Natural finishers with slurry, Usable to a certain degree on mild bevel setting but these are "make do" systems and not a dedicated bevel setter they do however leave a very smooth bevel

Please understand that I am not saying that many of the slurry systems will not work, but I do not consider them a dedicated system for setting bevels....

1k Wet-r-Dry Sandpaper, Yes you can, yes it does work, but it cuts deep into the steel, so it can be a bear and a waste of steel to get the bevel smooth again.. This is especially noticeable on full hollows


Some things I did not mention,

Glazing and/or Loading of the hone/stones I consider this as a non-issue every razor starts with a clean surface in my house I do about 5 figure 8's with a 325 lapping plate before each razor touches the surface....

Dishing or softness issues, again a non-issue in my house because of the figure 8's and I think these are greatly exaggerated as the pressure we use with honing razors should not create dishing anyway...

Lower then 1k hones, I left these out because I consider that to be restoration and not part of honing, that is what I do before I set the bevel

Do you even need a dedicated bevel setter ??? really only you can answer that, what I can say is that starting a razor off with a clean, sharp, even, bevel will greatly improve your chances of honing succes...


Please feel free to add your experiences with your bevel setting adventures, however please keep in the back of your mind I am talking about setting bevels here.. As in dedicated bevel setter, not I set the bevel on my brand new Dovo (ie: mild bevel setting), but I ripped the steel on a beat up E-bay W&B wedge can it do the heavy lifting???

Glen,
So your saying that setting the bevel is really important? (lol)