Thread: Naniwa 12K after a Coticule, to improve edges that are good but not great?

if you are looking for getting sharpening action from chro2 you should make 100 laps .
That will give to you some sharpness.
10 laps?
Chro2 is a such a fine and weak i would doubt it will sharpen the edge.
It may straighten the edge and you will feel sharper.
similar to stropping.

Originally Posted by Jeltz

Well I was able to squeeze the extra bit of sharpness out of a stainless steel blade last night with 10 laps on a chromium oxide balsa strop. I've never had much success with crox before but this time is seemed to work a treat!

I did read this thread again and again.
This is what i think.
What is the reason moving from one finisher to another and again to back same stone and so on.
I do believe you guys will be better learn your stones.
this is very important when you hone razors.
Someone needs to know what stone can give to you.
Lets say you are using 10k naniwa.
user has to find out what 10k naniwa can do .
it is maximum ability which you will sharpen your blade until that level.
Done move to next finer stone.
Your coticule may be finer then Naniwa 10k then it will be proper move to coticule and finish the edge.
in case your coticule isn't fine enough then moving to coticule after 10k naniwa wouldn't be right.

i have a coticule name of it Salm rock.
if i finish the edge on this coticule
There is no reason to move any other stone, Including escher, japanese finishing stone or any other synthetic.
I know This is the maximum sharpness i can get from this blade.
How many coticule out there similar to this stone?
i doubt if it is a lot.
let me bring up synthetic stone example.
if you are using Norton 8/4 k and sharpen your blade.
you will need to know when you have done on 4k level.
the easiest way to find out in my experiment is this.
when i move to 8k and after 5 -10 strokes if i see my 8k norton
gets metal particles(dirty) i stop right away.
i know i have moved to 8k too early.
i sharpen on 4k then repeat the process until when i move to 8k i don't see any metal removing.
make 10-15 strokes on 8 k and i am done.
i should mention there is a lot differences between natural finisher and synthetic.
This is why would be better not mix them up.
hope this helps.

Originally Posted by Jeltz

Well I was able to squeeze the extra bit of sharpness out of a stainless steel blade last night with 10 laps on a chromium oxide balsa strop. I've never had much success with crox before but this time is seemed to work a treat!

it does work a treat as you found out for your self, some finish on coti after so they say .
gary

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

let me bring up synthetic stone example.
if you are using Norton 8/4 k and sharpen your blade.
you will need to know when you have done on 4k level.
the easiest way to find out in my experiment is this.
when i move to 8k and after 5 -10 strokes if i see my 8k norton
gets metal particles(dirty) i stop right away.
i know i have moved to 8k too early.
i sharpen on 4k then repeat the process until when i move to 8k i don't see any metal removing.
make 10-15 strokes on 8 k and i am done.

That's very helpful; thank you!

I think it's hard to compare _a_ coticule or coticules in general unless you're one of the lucky or indulgent few who have honed on lots of them. I swapped stones for a while with another user; he was curious to try my extremely slow one and I wanted to see one actually darken slurry. He sent me his fastest. I learned a lot from that, but mainly that a single coticule might not be a reasonable honer AND finisher, that it might only be useful--and then extremely so--as a final finisher.

I'm still learning my own collection of coticules (2 rectangles and 3 bouts), so really can't discuss subtleties, only the extremes I've been able to experience for myself. I think some coticules are apples and some are oranges. In my own experience, some can improve a 10k edge and some can't.

Sham helped me learn how to hone and his example of not moving to the norton 8K to early (see swarf then you're not ready to be on 8K) is very good advice. Since learning this I never feel like I can have bad shaves after the 8K. I actually tried a week where I only used 8K edge and the shaves were nice ones, not as good as say my Escher shaves but nice.

The only way I see moving to the Naniwa 12K and then the coticule after the coticule was used BEFORE the 12K is that the 12K cuts fast. This would help thin the bevel more than just using the coticule so when you go BACK to the coticule the edge is more to where it should've been in the first place. I think working enough on the 4/8K stone would do the same job but easier than the Naniwa 12K.

Gary, have you tried instead of going to the naniwa 12K and then the coticule going to the Norton stone 4/8 and seeing the max you can get on that stone first? I mean 10-15 passes on the 8K with no swarf at all on the stone?

I am curious, I don't know if you still use the Norton stone anymore or if you have one.

i still have norton s. that would be very useful also to may be a small pyramid or just 8k. I'm using my lpb at present with realy nice results i have to say . as you mention the 12k does cut a little quiker than a coticule with water so it speeds things up. tghis is why i think it can help any one lacking that tiniest and i mean tiny last bit of keness, the 4k/8k would defanatley work even quiker .

gary

If you have a BBW that cuts well, a COTI that cuts well, and NAKAYAMA that cuts well, you are in business. And if you have an ESCHER that cuts well, you are "finished".

However. the NANI 12k is a superb touch-up stone.

JERRY
_____

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

I did read this thread again and again.
This is what i think.
What is the reason moving from one finisher to another and again to back same stone and so on.
I do believe you guys will be better learn your stones.
this is very important when you hone razors.
Someone needs to know what stone can give to you.
Lets say you are using 10k naniwa.
user has to find out what 10k naniwa can do .
it is maximum ability which you will sharpen your blade until that level.
Done move to next finer stone.
Your coticule may be finer then Naniwa 10k then it will be proper move to coticule and finish the edge.
in case your coticule isn't fine enough then moving to coticule after 10k naniwa wouldn't be right.

i have a coticule name of it Salm rock.
if i finish the edge on this coticule
There is no reason to move any other stone, Including escher, japanese finishing stone or any other synthetic.
I know This is the maximum sharpness i can get from this blade.
How many coticule out there similar to this stone?
i doubt if it is a lot.
let me bring up synthetic stone example.
if you are using Norton 8/4 k and sharpen your blade.
you will need to know when you have done on 4k level.
the easiest way to find out in my experiment is this.
when i move to 8k and after 5 -10 strokes if i see my 8k norton
gets metal particles(dirty) i stop right away.
i know i have moved to 8k too early.
i sharpen on 4k then repeat the process until when i move to 8k i don't see any metal removing.
make 10-15 strokes on 8 k and i am done.
i should mention there is a lot differences between natural finisher and synthetic.
This is why would be better not mix them up.
hope this helps.

I have a questions about metal removing. It seems you are saying not to move to the next higher grit hone until you don't see any metal on the hone you are on. Won't there always be metal being removed from the razor no matter how sharp the edge is? I hope this is not a dumb question.

If the surface of the hone has any abrasive quality to it, yes, you will be removing metal.

I think what he's saying is an edge that isn't quite finished on a Norton 4k being brought to a Norton 8k is that larger particles (swarf) are removed and are more visible to the naked eye. I know when I'm honing towards the end of the 8k I don't use much water (it sticks around) and it's very clear.

Also if you think about it, a rougher edged razor is gouging into the smooth surface of the Norton 8k and makes for a rougher "ride". You can get there eventually but there's a price to impatience.. might as well wait until the right time to move on or you'll just be spending more time on the next hone.

i never said that.
you will remove metal always.
how much is the question.
if you are in lower grit level you will remove more compare to higher grit stone.
Basically when you go from 4k to 8k norton only you will see very less metal moving.
if you have done job correctly below 8k level.
Now lets say you have 6k stone then when you move from 6k to 8k you will see less then 4k-8k level.
i hope now i am clear.

Originally Posted by Mvcrash

I have a questions about metal removing. It seems you are saying not to move to the next higher grit hone until you don't see any metal on the hone you are on. Won't there always be metal being removed from the razor no matter how sharp the edge is? I hope this is not a dumb question.