Thread: Hone of the Day

Euclid440

Yesterday I got a new razor: Henckels 401 Platinum and honed it testing the AX method for the first time. The only differences were the fact I used (using a sort of x Stroke) a small (10 x 5 cm) Aiiwatani Karasu and just a Shobudani Tomo (I've not the Aiiwatani's one).

Used 1 layer of Kapton tape.
Made the 21 strokes plus another 11 on the King 1K
Then jointed the edge and used a DMT 1200 to make slurry on the Aiiwatani.
Made 21 + 11 passes on it
Ended with Shobudani's slurry on the Aiiwatani for 21 + 11 passes.
Finished stropping on leather for about 30 strokes.

Today tested it and got a nice shave. Maybe I could have worked on 1K for another full set of 21 instead of the 11 one. Just to get a little bit keener edge. Being a first time... I can't complain and learned something more... ;-)

Should I have worked more on the Aiiwatani, from a microscopic point of view?



The razor as it was before honing:



After Honing & Stropping:

So, keep in mind Alex Gilmore is an expert honer, with tons of experience on Jnats, this translates to a lot of technique that he does not think about and takes for granted as he automatically compensates for little things, that can cause a new honer problems. Like stone prep, slurry thickness, pressure and stroke length and speed, very subtle things.

It is called experience. With time practice and experimentation, you will get there.

The point is, Alex’s demonstration video is a snapshot of what is possible, it is not a how-to tutorial. So, while Alex can set a bevel in 21, laps or so it does not mean, that it will be the same for a new honer. Maybe, maybe not. You must do what the razor needs, given the tools you have, stones, nagura and experience.

Looking at your photos, yes there is still a lot of refinement left that can easily be improved on. First my experience with Karasu are they are all over the map, in terms of finish. I have some that are very aggressive and some that are slower and finish well. An aggressive stone may benefit from a soft tomo and a slow hard stone more from Diamond slurry or an aggressive tomo. Experimentation is key.

To refine a 1k edge, try doing circles on fresh diamond slurry. Circles on slurry is a quick way to remove deep bevel setting stria, 20 in one direction, 20 in the opposite rotation. Then with the same slurry do a set of 10,5,2 and 1. I finish the set with a series of alternating X laps, 10-20 to ensure an even grind, fully hone the heel and toe and create a slight smile.

For the circles, I use a bit of pressure, for the first set of diminishing laps, moderate pressure and second set of diminishing laps light pressure. After the first set most of the deep stria should be removed, especially at the edge.

If you are not removing bevel setting stria fast enough, refresh your slurry by adding more new diamond slurry, as it breaks down it will polish more and be less aggressive generally.

Also do not be afraid to use pressure in the early laps with Jnats. But you always want to be cognizant of your pressure through the process. Start with pressure to cut/grind, finish with light pressure to polish.

With synthetics use more care with pressure to ensure you are not doing damage, check often.

Nice razor, they are shavers. That heel could use some correction to keep the corner well forward of the stabilizer. A few quick strokes will reshape it and move it forward.

Also, if you do not correct it, those blades are so thin it is easy to flex the blade, in an attempt to hone the heel and lift the edge off the stone. A quick correction will eliminate all those issues.

Another trick once you have a nice edge is to strop on linen, 10-20 laps, wash your stone and razor, make a lite slurry with a fine tomo, add another layer of Kapton and do 4-6 lite X laps for a micro bevel.

The micro bevel is the twist Alex uses on the Ax 2 method, he uses scotch tape, but Kapton works the same, better I think because you will not burn through it.

When honing thin hollow ground razors like your Henckels 401 Platinum do a test.

Tape the spine, and ink the bevels in colored ink, now on a high grit stone do a lap with lite pressure. Stop and look at the bevel see where you are removing ink, you should be honing to the edge.

Re-ink the bevels and do another lap increasing the pressure slightly. You will quickly see how little pressure it takes to lift the edge off the stone.

With a very thin hollow ground razor, if the blade is flexed too much, the back of the bevel, where the bevel meets the belly will act as a fulcrum and lift the edge off the stone, you will see this as ink being removed from the back of the bevel and not at the edge.

Now you know how much pressure you can use on that razor, it does not take much.

Euclid440

Another great couple of lessons... with tons of hints to learn & follow.

Usually I hone following a more "classic" way. I.E. I start with Naniwa Super 3K, followed by an Italian "unnamed" slate (using only water) good as a pre-finisher and alternating some finisher stones: Llyn Idwal (oil) - Welsh Purple Slate (light slurry with same stone bout) - Aiiwatani Karasu & Shobudani's Slurry or a Nakayama Kiita Koppa with the same Shobudani's Slurry. (in both Jnats I progressively dilute the tomo's slurry e finish with 10 or so strokes on clean water as suggested by Maxim Enevoldsen in his JNS wiki). Then I go to the leather strop.

As per movements & pressure, I usually alternate circles, half strokes, X-strokes on each stone, gradually decreasing the pressure as I go towards the finish stone.

Recently I saw Alex's videos and other's where they go directly from the bevel setter stone to the Jnats finishers... and started experimenting these techniques (without a microscope), but using the same movements & pressure I used before... always progressively diluting slurry as above. Btw got some nice shaves this way...

After you posted the Alex video, I was again fascinated by that fast (and less blade stressing) way to hone and wanted to (try to) learn it... So, here I am with my first clumsy attempts... But, as you said... experience is the key. It's a trial & error game...
Anyway, yesterday I learned it can be done (and today's shave was quite good)... now it's time to go more deep on it. Following your suggestions of course!

Thanks again!

Two, fresh off the workbench.

Wade & Butcher, FBU. 8/8 Full hollow.
I, Sorby. 6/8 Half hollow.



1 layer, tape.
Bevel set: 1k Chosera. Water
Mid range: Butterscotch Washita. Water
Pre finisher: Lt. Blue, Thurigan. Slurry- Water
Finisher: Blue/Green, Escher. Slurry-Water

I was not sad but then again not happy with my shave tonight. When I looked at it I thought I should go back to the 4K.

Here is the swarf pattern that made me smile.

And that, is learning how to read you stones.

Many ways to figure out what is happening between the stone and the edge other than hair test.

Hi to all SRP guys!

Last evening I made a test with some of my stones, to see if I could codify a good honing sequence.

Checked the job with my (cheap) usb microscope. Tomorrow will test on shave.

I used:

Razor: Estas 51 with a lowered blade (because of a big chip).
Stones: King 1K - Italian "no name" Slate (prefinisher) - Nakayama Kiita Koppa (Lev. 4,5)
Naguras: 1) Sho-Honyama (Lev. 3/3,5) - 2) Shobudani (Lev. 3,5/4)
Small (and used) Eze Lap 1200 grit diamond plate

Preliminary (visual) results:

1) The pre finish stone doesn't work well enough if using plain water only
2) The Sho-Honyama's slurry used on the previous stone makes a good job.
3) The Shobudani's (lev. 3,5/4) slurry doesn't seems finer than the Nakayama's diamond slurry.
4) Need to test a finer/harder Tomo after diamond slurry on the Nakayama.

Comments & Suggestions welcomed!

Nice experiment and documentation.

Nice 1k stria, edge looks has a bit of flashing/burr. If you want to improve each stage try jointing the edge, 1 lite stroke then reset the edge with about 10 lite laps, then go to the next stone.

What this does is remove the flash so the next stone does not have to cut it off or fold under and can polish a flash free bevel and edge.

Also, when you joint, look straight down on the edge, it should reflect light all the way from heel to toe. Where it is not reflecting light, (dark spots) are where the edge was not and still not meeting. You can joint again or hone and test again until the jointed edge reflects totally.

The more time you spend refining the edge at 1k the easier and stronger your edge will be off the finish stones. Remember it is all about the edge, get it as straight as possible. The bevels can be indicators, pointing you in the right direction, but it is a straight smooth edge we are after.

Case in point, look at the stria from the Italian slate, water only. That stria is deeper than the 1k. So, you may be going backwards using that stone in this progression.

The Jnat edges look good but if you do more laps you work /refine the slurry finer and refine the edge more. If you edge is banging on large fresh slurry you can be dulling the edge as you are refining it. One step forward two back.

When you think you are done, try jointing the finished edge, and reset (about 10 laps) on worked slurry or add a layer of Kapton and do 3-5 laps for a micro bevel.

Also, try shaving off the Diamond slurry edge and the Shobudani to see which is better.

How many laps are you doing on Diamond slurry?

Good work, making progress.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Nice experiment and documentation.

Nice 1k stria, edge looks has a bit of flashing/burr. If you want to improve each stage try jointing the edge, 1 lite stroke then reset the edge with about 10 lite laps, then go to the next stone.



Case in point, look at the stria from the Italian slate, water only. That stria is deeper than the 1k. So, you may be going backwards using that stone in this progression.

The Jnat edges look good but if you do more laps you work /refine the slurry finer and refine the edge more. If you edge is banging on large fresh slurry you can be dulling the edge as you are refining it. One step forward two back.

When you think you are done, try jointing the finished edge, and reset (about 10 laps) on worked slurry or add a layer of Kapton and do 3-5 laps for a micro bevel.

Also, try shaving off the Diamond slurry edge and the Shobudani to see which is better.

How many laps are you doing on Diamond slurry?

Good work, making progress.

Hi Euclid440

Thanks for your comments/hints.

I forgot to say I jointed the edge between 1K and the Slate... but didn't check it with microscope. Next time I'll do and joint it also on the finisher as you suggest.

The italian slate seemed good as a pre-finisher but it's the first time I inspect it with the microscope. Don't think I'll use it on plain water anymore.

I can't say how many laps did on each different phase, but the images have time stamp... so its possible to check if I need to stay more on some of the phases. Anyway it's been aprox 10 mins for each one.
Btw I always used Circles, Half Strokes & X-Strokes except for the 1K (half strokes only).

Next test to do, is (as you said) to test shave the diamond slurry only (without Shobudani).

Just one question: I was thinking to use a Naniwa Super 3K after the 1K (instead of using the slate with water) do you think it could be useful?