Thread: JNAT Honing nirvana for the noob

I finally learned my ozuku asagi 5+ from Maksim. I can confidently hone any of my blades I thought I'd pass on for those new to jnats so they can have a place to start. I know every stone can be a little different but this is what works on mine...

I apologize if this is long but it took me months to get this right. I searched and searched everywhere and looked at countless videos and this is the conglomerate of that I found. I hope this helps out some new folks get results faster than it took me. I enjoy 5+ hanging hair tests and shaves so smooth now across the grain and sometime ATG even above my lip on the fools pass doesn't even feel like it's cutting. It's important to max out your synthetic progression if you do it this way. I haven't tried a full nagura progression yet because of time. But I would think after the mejiro nagura or koma the blade should be equal or better than the naniwa 12k and should effortlessly tree top arm/leg hair.
I hone with one layer of super 88 tape and change it after each stone.

1.) Synthetic progression and maxing out each stone.
I first set the bevel on a cholera 1k with Lynn Abram's method. I found the most important thing is to kill the edge by jointing the stone lightly twice to take out defects in the blade. I do not leave this stone until it cuts my arm hair at skin level with comfort and ease.
Then I use Lynn's circle method on the 5k naniwa super stones. But end with x strokes until blade just slips down this stone smoothly as possible in order to max out my sharpness. I do not count strokes and I go by feel. This rules out differences in each blade that counting cannot. I progress to the 8k then 12k. In order to max out each stone I do 40 weight of the blade very small quick circles each side of blade and finish with x strokes until the blade starts to slip nice down the stone and undercut the water on the 8 and 12. Enjoy maxed out stone progression the blade should be a 4 HHT after this without stropping.

2.) ozuku fun begins
I then break out my ozuku. I asked Maksim for the finest particle tomo he had at the time and he sent me some type of asagi stone which is soft enough to not scratch my ozuku. The first tomo he sent me was very large particle and I couldn't get that stone to work. In fairness my skill level was not that good at the time either but the slurry felt rough on honzan. I also have a nakayama Kiita from aframes that works well too. Finding the right tomo was tough. The ozuku tomo from aframes was too hard and I couldn't generate a slurry. I haven't gone back to the atoma 1200 to test but I am willing to bet that would be fine too.

This is how I get edges that feel like a hot knife through butter. Think of a Lynn Abrams edge on steroids. I mean I do not even feel the hairs getting cut now WTG or XTG. ATG I feel very little resistance by my chin but I have copper wires there. But I get zero irritation and no razor burn. And no cuts.

I generate a light slurry so when I drag the blade spine leading to push slurry into one spot it's barely skim milk consistency. Light slurries are key with my stone. I saw some really thick slurries on this forum and that messed me up for months .

My stone I guess is a bit slow compared to the naniwa anyways so I do 60 light circles weight of the blade each side then x strokes until the blade starts to get slippery. Once the blade starts to slip down without much resistance I dry the blade and refresh the slurry once. This for me finishes the cutting.
I try to get a similar slurry or slightly less. At this point my honzan is so smooth it's hard to generate a slurry. I do another 60 very light short quick circles and then x strokes and the blade usually starts slipping like on glass. Occasionally I will get a blade that starts to stick here but rare. I keep going in that case through my dilutions until it either loosens up or gets ridiculously sticky and I stop. the blade has to determine what it needs.
Once the blade starts talking to me if it's slippery again or not I start my dilutions. I use a spray bottle and I spray it once and do 12 strokes. I count here because by the 12th stroke the blade loosens up again. I do this 3-4 times depending on the blade and how much slurry is left.
I leave very little tinge of slurry at this point on the blade and set it aside sharp edge up. I clean the honzan and with what slurry is on the blade I do extremely feathery light strokes water only basically until that blade feels like it's just gliding on water over glass or occasionally the blade will start to stick like crazy. That is where I will stop.

Here the blade should still be minimum 4+ HHT sometimes a 5. I hit a linen then leather strop. I found the upgraded linen from SRD acts like a super super fine hone. I pull the stop tight and do extremely light 40 strokes. Making sue to just barely catch that cutting edge. I believe most people are dulling and rounding their blades by the videos I have seen. That's why there is so much debate. If you hit the hones well the blade should hardly make a sound on the linen and feel like there is almost no texture. Not the annoying ripping sound I see in the videos. Then I do the same on my latigo pull it almost as taught and do very light weight of the blade strokes (not as concerned here) for 100 strokes. The feedback here is similar the linen the blade should have light to almost no resistance off that edge. HHT should be a good 4.75-true 5+ here with the smallest diameter of hairs.
I maintain my edges by doing 12 linen 25 leather post shave. 30 linen 70 leather pre.
Enjoy your shave!

Sorry about how long this is. But I hope it helps people saves months of trial and error. I'll answer any questions I can if people want my thoughts. Take care!


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Glad it's working out for you, but I don't agree on your assessment of stropping.,that's in the hands of the stropper, and the medium, I think after you have done this for a while you don't damage your edge, mine will improve from stropping,, then I Get HHT47,500+. But yes a Jnat will give a great edge when done right, so will a Coticule, or Eschers, and Synthetics, it's in your hands. Tc

That stropping sound is from the material, and not representative of poor technique. If you're breaking HHT down to fractions, it's a little too much, in my opinion. Hey, if it's working don't fix it. Learning stones is very fun and rewarding when you finally get results you're happy with.

Originally Posted by prodigy

That stropping sound is from the material, and not representative of poor technique. If you're breaking HHT down to fractions, it's a little too much, in my opinion. Hey, if it's working don't fix it. Learning stones is very fun and rewarding when you finally get results you're happy with.

I was just trying to make it as thorough as possible for new people to jnat honing. I"m not really that anal. I just wish there was something very specific for when I started with it. I figured this would be a good place to branch from so that honing becomes less frustrating for some people. There was a thread where people posted their finishing styles and the dude that posted first helped me more than anything. Before this I thought I was getting good edges.

The comment I made on the fabric strop is in relation to the debate about post jnat whether one should use it. Some say it will degrade the edge some say its not needed if you max out your jnat and some say its okay. This was just my theory on why most people seem to think it degrades the edge. From every video I ever saw on someone using the linen post honing they are putting a lot of pressure and zipping along. On the science of sharp website the gentleman proved with electron scanning that the more pressure you put on the linen the more you are destroying the edge and rounding it. I figured these folks were doing just that. Iwasaki recommend the linen somewhere between the honzan and the leather. I agree with him if the bade is run very lightly. Thats all I meant by that. This wasn't for the veterans everyone has their own way of doing things. Some more creative than others. Some making it look so easy on youtube my way appears archaic. This post was literally for the sole benefit of someone who literally just unboxed the stone and was about to go to town and wants a good shaving edge. Just got a little excited thats all .

If any moderator thinks its not the way to go feel free to delete it. This is for the benefit of the web search engines and for lurkers like me.

Sounds similar to what I do except I've always been afraid to try the Cholera 1k, lol.

The sound of the razor on fabric seems to be as much a function of grind than anything, a heavy grind makes little 'noise' while a thinly ground hollow will 'sing' on the fabric just like it does shaving.

Glad you're getting it dialed in.

Cheers, Steve

I am not being snide when I ask this, it is because I truly don't get it.

Why have a natural stone like a J-NAT but use synthetics 1k,5k,8k,& 12k THEN a natural?

I can see bevel setting on the 1k, that one makes sense but not going to 12k, which is crazy smooth and good shave, then to possibly go the opposite direction with a natural (I said possibly, certainly if you know your stone improves the scratch pattern after 12k then sure)

I am a stone collector of both natural and synthetic, it is kind of more fun to use a natural for everything after the bevel set. don't get me wrong you like your method and that is awesome, it will certainly work but I am not understanding it. Part of naturals is the 'fun' of naturals, and figuring out the natural.

FYI, I also have Chosera, 1k,3k, Snow White 8k, SS12, and Suehiro 20k, I use it all the time when I just want it to work, as it will always work. Its a sterile honing experience but in a way is no fun.
My naturals on the other hand I only use for #1,, collecting them, #2, the fun of figuring them out but they will "sometimes" never work as good as the Synth progression, but that is the fun in using a natural to try and get it to work as good.

Once again, you had fun, so that is cool with me, congrats on the method, I did learn something and will probably try it myself, so great writeup, and great read.

regards, Kevin

There's probably more than one reason why. The main one that comes to my mind is most final finishing jnats just don't cut fast enough to remove 1k stria, in a reasonable amount of time. So progressing through synthetics gets it to shave ready, then you Polish it up to get the benefit of the jnat. My routine lately has been chosera 1k, Ohira suita, maruka kiita.

Awesome details...But for a noob like me looking at making a purchase of stones I am now totally confused...seems like I have more research to do to understand what was just spoken. I did like the detailed process of what you learned but got lost with weight and HHT and the numbers after it. I think that makes me pre-noob


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Originally Posted by GeorgeX

Awesome details...But for a noob like me looking at making a purchase of stones I am now totally confused...seems like I have more research to do to understand what was just spoken. I did like the detailed process of what you learned but got lost with weight and HHT and the numbers after it. I think that makes me pre-noob


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I don't keep track of the HHT numbers either, I just go off how well it cuts arms hairs, the further away from my skin that it cuts them the better.
That's all I ever remember about HHT.

Originally Posted by sidmind

I am not being snide when I ask this, it is because I truly don't get it.

Why have a natural stone like a J-NAT but use synthetics 1k,5k,8k,& 12k THEN a natural?

I can see bevel setting on the 1k, that one makes sense but not going to 12k, which is crazy smooth and good shave, then to possibly go the opposite direction with a natural (I said possibly, certainly if you know your stone improves the scratch pattern after 12k then sure)

I am a stone collector of both natural and synthetic, it is kind of more fun to use a natural for everything after the bevel set. don't get me wrong you like your method and that is awesome, it will certainly work but I am not understanding it. Part of naturals is the 'fun' of naturals, and figuring out the natural.

FYI, I also have Chosera, 1k,3k, Snow White 8k, SS12, and Suehiro 20k, I use it all the time when I just want it to work, as it will always work. Its a sterile honing experience but in a way is no fun.
My naturals on the other hand I only use for #1,, collecting them, #2, the fun of figuring them out but they will "sometimes" never work as good as the Synth progression, but that is the fun in using a natural to try and get it to work as good.

Once again, you had fun, so that is cool with me, congrats on the method, I did learn something and will probably try it myself, so great writeup, and great read.

regards, Kevin

Originally Posted by GeorgeX

Awesome details...But for a noob like me looking at making a purchase of stones I am now totally confused...seems like I have more research to do to understand what was just spoken. I did like the detailed process of what you learned but got lost with weight and HHT and the numbers after it. I think that makes me pre-noob


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I use the synthetic progression because it's fast and very very precise. Remember I wanted this thread to be easy learning for the noob. I don't think a new person could have repeatable success with. Nagura honing when the naniwa as are so easy and less user error. When I'm done the blade is equal to a mejiro nagura. I know the 12k is equal to a mejiro nagura because I calibrated my leg/arm hair for each stone and all of my research on the forums.
I agree nagura honing seems more fun but this was to be a stupid easy place to start for someone that wants a good edge. Many people could stop at the 12k with this method and I think get a really good shave. I chose to take the edge to a keener level without needs for pastes.
My jnat is super hard and fine. I have no idea what it's grit is but it's def above a 12k. Based on my experiments probably slightly finer than the Suehiro I also have but with the benefit of awesome feedback and no fear of too many laps making a harsh edge. The suehiro stone is hard for me to get a feel for and I always overdue the edges.
I use my jnat to put that unique super sharp but super smooth edge that seems to distinguish hair from skin that the 12k alone and the suehiro doesn't give. The 12k edge isn't comfortable enough for the ATG for me either.

As far as the HHT goes one has to calibrate this to his or his wife's hair like me but if one searches this forum one will find in the wiki that a HHT of 4 will pop the hair with ease as soon as it touches the blade and I think the hair does not jump. A 5 the blade is so keen the hair silently falls apart. When I say calibrate for example with me, a blade that passes my HHT will not guarantee a good shave. But if it won't pass a HHT of 4 or more it's guaranteed to be a lousy shave.

As far as the weight of the blade it's hard to explain. I use slight pressure on bevel set careful not to flex the blade at all. But I don't start by feathering it on the 1k. We're talking a few to a couple ounces or less but always I end with almost no pressure. On 5k I start with again very light pressure and end like Lynn Abrams says with just about balancing the blade on stone with just feather light pressure. There is always a tiny bit of pressure I'm not completely feathering it but close. On the finishing strokes on the jnat water only it's a few actual barely touching feather light strokes once that blade starts slipping like glass. I found that sharpness comes from pressure strokes but keenness comes from the feather strokes and are more important at the end. 8k and up the pressure has to be feather light to get the keenness. I focus on that blade staring to slip along the stone. It won't always slip on the 5k but if you pay attention there will be a noticeable lessoning or smoothing of the friction. Easier to see on the 8k and above.

Glad this is starting to help people out.


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