Thread: JNAT Honing nirvana for the noob

Originally Posted by Kees

It is all a matter of personal taste really. You can get perfect edges using synthetics, coticules, Eschers and Jnats.
I remember Lynn once posting that after lots of experiments with all sorts of natural stones he went back to using synthetics because they are way more predictable than naturals.
To all noobs I would say: get to grips with honing first before you start experimenting with Jnats and naguras.
Only when I had mastered honing with an Escher I started improving the edge with a Nakayama many years ago. Only recently did I buy a large Oozuku mizu and a full set of Mikawa Naguras to experiment with.

I must be wrong but from personal experience a quality Jnat can do things to an edge that synthetics cannot. I'm referring to the feel of the edge.

I also read some where once that Jnat edges will hold for longer than synthetic edges

If you only recently bought a jnat with Naguras , then I say give it some time and then post your findings..
All the best..Joe

Thanks for pointing out Joe. When I wrote "...perfect edges..." I meant to say edges that give you a perfect shave. You are right to point out that Jnats give better edges. I have been using a Nakayama for many years to improve the edge of a Y/G Escher although to be honest: I don't always bpother to take the time to use the Nakayama after the Y/G. Somehow certain razor benefit more from Jnats than others.
Of course I shall post my experiences with Nagura progressions after I have gained more experience with them.

Originally Posted by Kees

It is all a matter of personal taste really. You can get perfect edges using synthetics, coticules, Eschers and Jnats.
I remember Lynn once posting that after lots of experiments with all sorts of natural stones he went back to using synthetics because they are way more predictable than naturals.
To all noobs I would say: get to grips with honing first before you start experimenting with Jnats and naguras.
Only when I had mastered honing with an Escher I started improving the edge with a Nakayama many years ago. Only recently did I buy a large Oozuku mizu and a full set of Mikawa Naguras to experiment with.

I'm just trying to come to grips on what stones I will buy first. Economics may play a factor


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

For the record I didn't mean to sound condescending (Kees) .

I know what people with more experience than me say. Which is that synthetics and naturals can achieve the same results.

Maybe my Nakayama is something really special I cannot speak for others.

It is a fact that I have only had butter smooth edges from my Nakyama and once from a pro honed Escher finished blade.

Only recently did I stop doing a synthetic progression and finishing on the Jnat. I thought that was the ultimate.

Now I use most of my Naguras and the results are next level.

The thing I love most about honing and restoring is the learning part. I take what the masters have to offer but no one is absolute ..

Shame you don't live near me we could swap stones for a day.... Under armed guard of course haha

If you have a shave-ready razor you'll only need a finishing hone for touch-ups. 12K synthetic, coticule of Thuringian will do the trick. More often than not you will find something in the classifieds if new is to expensive. Jnats are IMHO for the more experienced honers.

Originally Posted by GeorgeX

I'm just trying to come to grips on what stones I will buy first. Economics may play a factor

When I bought my first Nakayama Asagi in 2009 it was cheaper than buying a 20 or 30k synthetic. Do your research. Not sure if that holds true today.

It really depends which Nakayama you are eyeing.

Update for the noobs. I know only do one round of slurry and get slightly smoother results. I would suggest starting with one slurry on the honzan and adjust up from there. A couple of my blades got a bit to edgy for me with two. I increased my linen to 50 and and kept leather the same.

One thing I forgot to mention in the beginning is to really focus on maximizing the blade on the 8k and 12k stones. Do not leave any of the synthetic hones until that blade is gliding down with a feeling of glass.

I also added the 3k naniwa and this helps take out the variable of what is "some pressure". After the bevel is set on the 1k I do not use any pressure for the rest of the stones. This does away with the chance of the "wire edge."

I think if too much pressure is used in the beginning esp on the hollows it flexes the blade and you end up stripping the cutting edge. Making it delicate. By the end of the first hone there should be almost no pressure. I have yet to hone out a wire edge this way. I have been doing a lot of x strokes on the 8k and 12k and have not over honed the edge.

One last bit of advice for the noobs. Don't even try to use the jnat unless you get a comfortable and excellent shave off the 12k. I recently had a "shave ready" razor come to me off the bay. For shits and giggles I shaved with it and was amazed. I emailed the guy and he swore he used a simple synthetic progression 1, 3, 5, 8 and 10. It was almost as smooth as my jnats coming off a 10! This is what prompted me to spend even more time on the stones esp the 8 and 12 and I shaved off my 12 and honestly I could live with that if I had to it was so good. So the jnat is only putting that laaaast very very bit of keenness on the edge so don't put any pressure on that blade and don't try to take that much metal. Hope all are well and that's my 2 cents for the gents.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've been saying that for as long as I can remember, in the right hands a synthetic will produce great shaving edges, smooth and sharp. For those who find them harsh, maybe they haven't gotten them to the right stage. And naturals do produce that smooth edge too. But that's still in the hands of the guy doing the honing. To each their own, but I think to get the benefit out of some of these natural finishers takes having a super edge already from the lower grit hones. Tc

Originally Posted by tcrideshd

...I think to get the benefit out of some of these natural finishers takes having a super edge already from the lower grit hones. Tc

That's true of all razor finishers TC, if every mm of the edge isn't ready to finish you're just polishing a t*rd.

Of course, understanding your final finisher is a requirement to get the best out of it, slurry/no slurry/thin slurry on jnats, how many strokes on a Gok20k, how much pressure, etc.

Cheers, Steve