Thread: JNAT Honing nirvana for the noob

Originally Posted by TJB

Interesting could you elaborate please? I'm curious to what you mean. If a full nagura progression gives even a better edge than this I'd be interested in your technique so I can chase the dragon again. I honestly don't know how much more I can ask from my blades. But I'd be willing to try if I'm missing out on something. I have a full set with koma I was thinking trying again anyhow.


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It depends on a lot of factors...

Practice will get you there though..

Personally I set the bevel with the 1k.
Then I go through the progression . Each Nagura with 2/3 dilutions..
For time I was using one Botan , then recently I took out my first Botan an Asano , takes some work to create a slurry.
I couldn't believe how fast it got rid of the 1k scratches compared to my favourite Botan .

Also I use a microscope so I can see exactly what happening .. Through a loupe everything always looks perfect to me .

The feel of an edge done with full Naguras is miles apart from a synthetic edge finished on a jnat.
Typically the edge feels like a butter knife and you wonder if its sharp at all.
Also my face feels like I havnt had a shave , I can slap and tug at it all I want , its not been through the mill.
Maybe synthetic honing gives an edge that takes a bit of skin with it????

All my opinion of course...

Its a constant learning curve...
Joseph

Originally Posted by JOB15

It depends on a lot of factors...

Practice will get you there though..

Personally I set the bevel with the 1k.
Then I go through the progression . Each Nagura with 2/3 dilutions..
For time I was using one Botan , then recently I took out my first Botan an Asano , takes some work to create a slurry.
I couldn't believe how fast it got rid of the 1k scratches compared to my favourite Botan .

Also I use a microscope so I can see exactly what happening .. Through a loupe everything always looks perfect to me .

The feel of an edge done with full Naguras is miles apart from a synthetic edge finished on a jnat.
Typically the edge feels like a butter knife and you wonder if its sharp at all.
Also my face feels like I havnt had a shave , I can slap and tug at it all I want , its not been through the mill.
Maybe synthetic honing gives an edge that takes a bit of skin with it????

Another view.

My 2k stone gets rid of 1k scratches quicker than any Nagura or Jnat.

An 8x loupe is plenty magnification if you know what to look for.

Sometimes I find it hard to tell the difference between a Jnat finish & a synthetic finish... IF...both edges are smooth & equally sharp.
To paraphrase something from Mastro Livi, 'si sente niente' which means "nothing is felt".

The benefit of Jnats is that they polish well & the benefit of synthetics is they cut fast but if nothing is nothing, then the edege you achieve is majorly a result of you, the honer & not so much the tools.

I do agree "It depends on a lot of factors..." & "Practice will get you there though.."

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Another view.

My 2k stone gets rid of 1k scratches quicker than any Nagura or Jnat.

An 8x loupe is plenty magnification if you know what to look for.

Sometimes I find it hard to tell the difference between a Jnat finish & a synthetic finish... IF...both edges are smooth & equally sharp.
To paraphrase something from Mastro Livi, 'si sente niente' which means "nothing is felt".

The benefit of Jnats is that they polish well & the benefit of synthetics is they cut fast but if nothing is nothing, then the edege you achieve is majorly a result of you, the honer & not so much the tools.

I do agree "It depends on a lot of factors..." & "Practice will get you there though.."

I like the philosophy of this. If when you started honing and you knew then what you know now, would it have made a difference in what you purchased and when?


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Originally Posted by GeorgeX

I like the philosophy of this. If when you started honing and you knew then what you know now, would it have made a difference in what you purchased and when?


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I think getting hones you don't like is part of learning what you do like. It's all personal preference, so what others like a lot, you may not care for. The norton are recommended because they have a good price point, and they work. If I could start with the set up I currently use, I wouldn't appreciate the stones I have now. If that makes sense?

I use the chosera 1k, then jnats. It's hard to recommend jnats over naturals because they are more expensive and they are all slightly different. Hard for a beginner to just jump right in. However, for full synthetic, I recommend as many of the chosera line you can justify financially, then go to shapton pros for everything else. The Japanese version shapton pros are identical to the US versions, but cost much less. For a final finisher, the Naniwa 12k is hard to beat, as far as price and performance go. Suehiro might be better, but the extra price might not be justifiable for a beginner.

That's the problem when you become addicted to honing. You will never stop chasing something different, in the hopes that it might be better than what you already have. Most of the time it won't be better.

Originally Posted by prodigy

I think getting hones you don't like is part of learning what you do like. It's all personal preference, so what others like a lot, you may not care for. The norton are recommended because they have a good price point, and they work. If I could start with the set up I currently use, I wouldn't appreciate the stones I have now. If that makes sense?

I use the chosera 1k, then jnats. It's hard to recommend jnats over naturals because they are more expensive and they are all slightly different. Hard for a beginner to just jump right in. However, for full synthetic, I recommend as many of the chosera line you can justify financially, then go to shapton pros for everything else. The Japanese version shapton pros are identical to the US versions, but cost much less. For a final finisher, the Naniwa 12k is hard to beat, as far as price and performance go. Suehiro might be better, but the extra price might not be justifiable for a beginner.

That's the problem when you become addicted to honing. You will never stop chasing something different, in the hopes that it might be better than what you already have. Most of the time it won't be better.

So the addiction to honing is like the addiction to acquiring other wet shaving products. Oh my, what rabbit hole did I fall into lol


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Originally Posted by GeorgeX

So the addiction to honing is like the addiction to acquiring other wet shaving products. Oh my, what rabbit hole did I fall into lol


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Yup! But you now have a large community to show you all the awesome and expensive things you need to buy. So the guesswork is already taken care of

Originally Posted by prodigy

Yup! But you now have a large community to show you all the awesome and expensive things you need to buy. So the guesswork is already taken care of

I'll be filtering some of the expensive part and pay attention to awesome part. Looking for a happy "wife" median price point with sales. Gonna need to employ some psychology.

Now back to the topic at hand. Jnats, Chosera synthetics, naturals oh my..the choices are many. More research needed to understand them all. I may settle to take the road most traveled and learn my mistakes like others have. I will practice patience and learn from my mistakes made along the journey


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Originally Posted by GeorgeX

I'll be filtering some of the expensive part and pay attention to awesome part. Looking for a happy "wife" median price point with sales. Gonna need to employ some psychology.

Now back to the topic at hand. Jnats, Chosera synthetics, naturals oh my..the choices are many. More research needed to understand them all. I may settle to take the road most traveled and learn my mistakes like others have. I will practice patience and learn from my mistakes made along the journey


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If that's the case, find someone near you to help out. That is the single best piece of advice anyone can give a beginner. Watching videos and reading through threads helps, but doesn't come anywhere near the hands on help of someone with experience. You can both see the right way, and they can correct you when you do it the wrong way.

Originally Posted by GeorgeX

I like the philosophy of this. If when you started honing and you knew then what you know now, would it have made a difference in what you purchased and when?

Maybe but I only ever buy what I can afford. I don't see many past purchases as mistakes.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Another view.

My 2k stone gets rid of 1k scratches quicker than any Nagura or Jnat.

An 8x loupe is plenty magnification if you know what to look for.

Sometimes I find it hard to tell the difference between a Jnat finish & a synthetic finish... IF...both edges are smooth & equally sharp.
To paraphrase something from Mastro Livi, 'si sente niente' which means "nothing is felt".

The benefit of Jnats is that they polish well & the benefit of synthetics is they cut fast but if nothing is nothing, then the edege you achieve is majorly a result of you, the honer & not so much the tools.

I do agree "It depends on a lot of factors..." & "Practice will get you there though.."

You make it sound like all stones are equal but synthetics are just faster..

I have found a huge difference between synthetics and natural stones, personally..and I am referring to the feel of the shave.
Not quite sure what Mastro L is talking about
Cheers ..Joe