Thread: JNAT Honing nirvana for the noob

Originally Posted by JOB15

I don't mean to be awkward and I assume you are more knowledgeable than me but:

""My 2k stone gets rid of 1k scratches quicker than any Nagura or Jnat"" speed vs end result imo.
Sorry, I tend to be a bit laconic You said how fast your Nagura were & I thought to my self , that's relative.
End result is the last stone or 2in the progression, provided you did everything right up to then.

""An 8x loupe is plenty magnification if you know what to look for."" I know what to look for and the view is mostly always perfect.
I can see lots of imperfections in a bevel thats not set at 8x. To my eyes it's only perfect when it's set.

""Sometimes I find it hard to tell the difference between a Jnat finish & a synthetic finish"" I can only speak for myself but I see and feel a big difference between the two.
If the finishes can be equal then surely we would all work off 12k Naniwa? (hang on, most ppl on earth do finish on a 12k Naniwa)
Ha! It seems they do. Well, I'd say a good Jnat finisher can exceed any 12k finish as can say, a 20k Gokumyo so you have to go above 12k to find the imperceptible difference I referred to..

""The benefit of Jnats is that they polish well & the benefit of synthetics is they cut fast but if nothing is nothing, then the edge you achieve is majorly a result of you, the honer & not so much the tools."" If this really is the case then I am really in tune with natural stones..

Good natural stones are a pleasure to use but they can also be a challenge depending on the individual's skill level.
There are no absolutes but synthetics tend to provide repeatable results due to them being mostly the same.


You make it sound like all stones are equal but synthetics are just faster..
Well, it's a bit of a generalization but... A synthetic bevel setter is 99.9% of the time always faster than a natural. End result , both types of stone set the bevel, one is faster.
Middle stones are where speed can overlap but even here fast naturals are not common.
The 20k Gokumyo is faster than my fastest Jnat finisher. Of course if if it only takes a handful of strokes to finish, the speed is not so relevant but yes, it's possible to get results that are close enough to equal with synths or naturals & yes, synthetics are mostly quicker but at end game it's always minimal strokes & minimal pressure regardless of the stone..
Cheers ..Joe

~~~~~~~~~~ Cheers

I edited my post before you replied

I only work with 2 jnats over the last few years so my experience is limited.
However I was unaware that that butter knife edge feel can be had from synthetic stones .

I have Chosera and Shapton glass range and over the years had some drop dead edges but Nower days they are boxed and put away.

My Nakayama is in different league to them and gives much better results..

This is in my experience ...
Thanks for the lengthy response..

Thank you for taking the time to write this up and post it. Not only will it be helpful to newb's but also advanced users like myself. I love to hear about progressions, techniques employed, tests used, and results achieved! It sounds like you are getting wonderful results based on a lot of practice and research. Great job! Of course I read this looking for things I could relate to and learn from and not things I disagreed with or ways I am superior in my ability. So with that in mind, once again I say thank you for taking the time to give back to the community adding to the experience here and the knowledge.

Originally Posted by JOB15

Not quite sure what Mastro L is talking about
Cheers ..Joe

Again I have to apologise for not being clear. I think it's on his video where he does a quick dry shave test on his cheek & says the quote about not feeling anything. IIRC he finished on a CrO strop.
So basically there's more than one way to skin a cat. If you have the 30 k GS give it another try some time down the track you may even find a way to integrate it with your Jnats.

I just love the synthetics.....Coti..Escher.
Might get into the JNats someday. So much controversy.
Seems you must buy lots of little rocks and several big ones. Learn Japanese. Let's do that!

Experiment until the cows come home. Then, go feed the cows.

I am always interested in it, however. Great edges to be had!

They say to sit and watch Bayamontate is quite a treat!

Originally Posted by Steel

Thank you for taking the time to write this up and post it. Not only will it be helpful to newb's but also advanced users like myself. I love to hear about progressions, techniques employed, tests used, and results achieved! It sounds like you are getting wonderful results based on a lot of practice and research. Great job! Of course I read this looking for things I could relate to and learn from and not things I disagreed with or ways I am superior in my ability. So with that in mind, once again I say thank you for taking the time to give back to the community adding to the experience here and the knowledge.

I also thank you for the post as it got me researching about JNATs and going down rabbit holes I never thought. There are lots of choices I was unaware of


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Originally Posted by Steel

Thank you for taking the time to write this up and post it. Not only will it be helpful to newb's but also advanced users like myself. I love to hear about progressions, techniques employed, tests used, and results achieved! It sounds like you are getting wonderful results based on a lot of practice and research. Great job! Of course I read this looking for things I could relate to and learn from and not things I disagreed with or ways I am superior in my ability. So with that in mind, once again I say thank you for taking the time to give back to the community adding to the experience here and the knowledge.

Originally Posted by GeorgeX

I also thank you for the post as it got me researching about JNATs and going down rabbit holes I never thought. There are lots of choices I was unaware of


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You are welcome. Like I said before, it was only meant for beginners but if others found it useful that's great. If I found a thread like this from the beginning I would have learned to max out my stones quicker.

Shobudani type 100 stones can be had for like 60 bucks. Although I don't have one I heard they make fantastic edges without spending 450-650 dollars on an ozuku or 1200 on a nakayama.I bought my Ozuku 5+ stone at www.japanesenaturalstones.com and emailing Maksim has been great. There are other venders that I heard are good and I believe are listed here. Good luck.


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Have you ever seen maskims videos of him honing? He is impressive in his knowledge and ability.

Originally Posted by Steel

Have you ever seen maskims videos of him honing? He is impressive in his knowledge and ability.

I will look it up. Lots of different techniques


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It is all a matter of personal taste really. You can get perfect edges using synthetics, coticules, Eschers and Jnats.
I remember Lynn once posting that after lots of experiments with all sorts of natural stones he went back to using synthetics because they are way more predictable than naturals.
To all noobs I would say: get to grips with honing first before you start experimenting with Jnats and naguras.
Only when I had mastered honing with an Escher I started improving the edge with a Nakayama many years ago. Only recently did I buy a large Oozuku mizu and a full set of Mikawa Naguras to experiment with.