Thread: Ding near toe... go right to the 1K?

On the 8K, two layers of tape, I did about 30 strokes with firm pressure, and then 40 strokes with lighter pressure (replacing tape first). In both cases, no finger pressure on the heel or toe, as I did on previous hone. Instead I did two things. First, I used heel forward so that the stria is at an angle, instead of perpendicular to the edge, so that I can see the change in marks. Second, I tried rolling the blade, with more weight on heel and then on toe (with a very slight lift at the end of the stroke to try to catch the toe better. Checked with inking that I was getting coverage on one pass.

Here are high rez shots (heel to toe, toe to heel):


Here are shots at lower resolution, so that you can see the whole edge better (I missed the middle on one side):


Finally, here are three shots of the edge, head on, at ends and middle (all at high resolution):

The toe on one side, seems to have several different facets (fourth shot). Not sure how to deal with that. The other side of the toe seems to have slightly deeper stria, but they are in the new direction (so from the 8k stone).

The edge seems to be meeting OK, if I'm interpreting the picture OK.

Looks lots better, that multi bevel at the toe is from rocking with the X stroke and not using enough even pressure to keep the bevel flat on the stone.

Just takes a bit of practice to get an even flat bevel at the end of the stroke, but looks like it is honed to the edge, so should not be an issue.

I would move up to the 8k but be careful there is hair all over that razor and a hair on the stone will screw up an edge. Rinse and dry well.

Yes the edge photos look good.

Nice work.

It took me a sec to figure out what that hair was

Originally Posted by pcm

The toe on one side, seems to have several different facets (fourth shot). Not sure how to deal with that. The other side of the toe seems to have slightly deeper stria, but they are in the new direction (so from the 8k stone).

The edge seems to be meeting OK, if I'm interpreting the picture OK.

It appears that each of the photos (not just the 4th one) shows multiple facets.

Would you please show a non-magnified photo of this razor? Maybe that will provide a clue to this.

One concern that i have is that you are doing 70 strokes on an 8k. In my opinion that is way too many. 15 or 20 strokes should be more than enough on an 8k.

Another issue is your pressure variations. I know that you have tried varying the finger placement on the blade and this time you tried no extra pressure, but what about torquing the blade? In addition to varying the pressure along the edge while doing a rolling x stroke, you also need to be slightly torquing the blade in a rotational manner so that you are increasing the pressure on the edge while reducing it on the spine. I'm sorry if torquing has been addressed in any of your previous honing threads, but I don't recall it.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Looks lots better, that multi bevel at the toe is from rocking with the X stroke and not using enough even pressure to keep the bevel flat on the stone.

Just takes a bit of practice to get an even flat bevel at the end of the stroke, but looks like it is honed to the edge, so should not be an issue.

I would move up to the 8k but be careful there is hair all over that razor and a hair on the stone will screw up an edge. Rinse and dry well.

Yes the edge photos look good.

Nice work.

This was on the 8K. There is a lot of dust, hair, dirt on the microscope base, and I end up picking up some, when moving the razor around under the microscope. I need to clean the area more. I do wipe the razor off, before going back to the stone.

Originally Posted by Utopian

It appears that each of the photos (not just the 4th one) shows multiple facets.

Would you please show a non-magnified photo of this razor? Maybe that will provide a clue to this.

One concern that i have is that you are doing 70 strokes on an 8k. In my opinion that is way too many. 15 or 20 strokes should be more than enough on an 8k.

Another issue is your pressure variations. I know that you have tried varying the finger placement on the blade and this time you tried no extra pressure, but what about torquing the blade? In addition to varying the pressure along the edge while doing a rolling x stroke, you also need to be slightly torquing the blade in a rotational manner so that you are increasing the pressure on the edge while reducing it on the spine. I'm sorry if torquing has been addressed in any of your previous honing threads, but I don't recall it.

I didn't try torquing the blade. I could do that. Should I stay at the 8K, go back to the 4K, or something different?

Here are photos of the blade taken with a 50mm lens (equivalent) of my camera. Not sure how well the lighting is...

If it's not viewable, let me know (seems compressed some). I can post the original full sized image on a web page and then link to this forum.

OK, thanks. It looks like you are starting to hit the stabilizer on the back side and have the beginning of a hook. I think Onimaru addressed this several pages back.

I think torquing is one of the hardest things for beginning honers to grasp. You need to do it, but it should not be excessive. You just keep your focus on the pressure being on the edge, even with the lightest stroke, and the spine should just go along for a relatively weightless ride. The spine serves only as an angle guide, with the bevel angle being determined by the angle established by the spine and the edge, but steel only needs to be removed from the bevels to create the edge. That's why I'm saying that you focus your pressure at the edge, where steel needs to be removed, rather than on the spine that is only a guide.

You to not want to exert a lot of rotational pressure (torquing) when you do this. On anything but a wedge, if you do so you run the risk of bending the blade which will have the effect of honing the belly side of the bevel and never making contact with the edge side of the bevel because the edge will be lifted off of the hone.

I hope that is clear.

I would drop down to the 4k or whatever you use before the 8k. Do whatever number of strokes needed to create flat pristinely uniform bevels again. Use the focussed torquing and, as always, fresh tape. I don't think you should not need more than 10 to 20 strokes. After that, change the tape and with light strokes and that same focussed torquing, do no more than 20 8k strokes. Repeat the same with the 12k with maybe only 10 strokes

Originally Posted by pcm

Instead I did two things. First, I used heel forward so that the stria is at an angle, instead of perpendicular to the edge, so that I can see the change in marks.

I don't advise using a different stroke unless its the exact mirror opposite of what you're using that works. If you're leading with the heel at an angle & getting the whole edge, changing to a perpendicular stroke will give you a slightly different contact in places & then the whole edge doesn't get honed evenly.