Thread: Hone confusion

What grit paper are you lapping with & how hard are you pushing on the stone ?
I wonder if the particles are from the paper getting embedded. Lapping the stone with a diamond plate would show if the paper or stone is at fault.

Norton stones were notorious for a gritty surface & in some cases 1/8" had to be removed to get to a smooth surface. You may have a similar issue with the King?

Originally Posted by onimaru55

What grit paper are you lapping with & how hard are you pushing on the stone ?
I wonder if the particles are from the paper getting embedded. Lapping the stone with a diamond plate would show if the paper or stone is at fault.

I'm using 180 grit wet and dry, and the weight of the stone and a little more.

I do not believe that the anomalies in the stone are from an external source, both for the reasons stated above, and also, 180 grit wet and dry could not shed a particle almost 1mm in diameter, and the anomalies are not hard single particles, more like clumps of a slightly different consistency within the matrix. A 1mm abrasive particle would completely ruin a razor, which is not happening. All that is happening is that I'm not getting the polish and edge I would expect.

I agree that a diamond plate is an ideal solution. And your suggestion of lapping off a decent-sized layer to see if the anomalies run all the way through the stone is a good one which I will try.

For a 10k synth, I would use something finer to lap with. Maybe P400 wet/dry or an equivalent diamond hone as mentioned. Perhaps the green effect is from absorbing silicon carbide from the paper? Maybe you mentioned it before, but how long are you soaking the 10k? I would think just splash and go or a very short soak would be in order, and if the synth stone was soaked longer for lapping, perhaps that too might be contributing to the green effect as the hone would be overly softened.

1k > 4k, you could always try a coticule afterwards and forgo the 6k.

Originally Posted by Montgomery

I'm using 180 grit wet and dry, and the weight of the stone and a little more.

I do not believe that the anomalies in the stone are from an external source, both for the reasons stated above, and also, 180 grit wet and dry could not shed a particle almost 1mm in diameter, and the anomalies are not hard single particles, more like clumps of a slightly different consistency within the matrix. A 1mm abrasive particle would completely ruin a razor, which is not happening. All that is happening is that I'm not getting the polish and edge I would expect.

I agree that a diamond plate is an ideal solution. And your suggestion of lapping off a decent-sized layer to see if the anomalies run all the way through the stone is a good one which I will try.

In hindsight I can remember similar problems with a Bester 2 k stone. Small pimples of stone seemed to raise up at random. Might be a fault in the manufacture.

Originally Posted by Brontosaurus

For a 10k synth, I would use something finer to lap with. Maybe P400 wet/dry or an equivalent diamond hone as mentioned.

The reason for using p180 on this occasion was to take a good layer off the top of the stone to establish whether the anomalies in the stone could be removed by lapping (they can - see above). As I said before, I usually lap/clean the stone on a 1k stone, which may not be ideal, but is not causing this problem. The diamond plate is an ideal solution, but I don't currently have one.

Originally Posted by Brontosaurus

Perhaps the green effect is from absorbing silicon carbide from the paper?

As described above at length, there is a list of good reasons why I do not think the anomalies in the stone are from something external to the stone, and why they are not connected with the wet and dry paper in particular. But one further good reason is that the anomalies were present both when I lapped with the 1k stone and the wet and dry paper.

Originally Posted by Brontosaurus

Maybe you mentioned it before, but how long are you soaking the 10k?

Basically just wetting the stone; one to two minutes, then frequent sprays from a bottle, and rinses under the tap.

Originally Posted by Brontosaurus

1k > 4k, you could always try a coticule afterwards and forgo the 6k.

Yes, I guess further experimentation is in order!

In any case, the 10k stone is now out of the rotation until further notice. I will try removing a substantial layer from the top of the stone to see if the anomalies are just on the surface.

“I couldn't really see any significant improvement in the edge after the 6k and 10k, and in fact, I never quite get back the smooth polished edge I get off the 4k after going to the 6k and 10k.”

What are you basing your opinion on?
Are you talking about stria comparison or edge straightness?
What magnification are you using for comparison?

If your 6 and 10k edges are not improved over a 4k, it is not the stone. I have a King 6k and Ice Bear 10, the 6 produces a much finer stria pattern that any 4k I have and the 10k is near mirror, very similar to a Naniwia 12k super stone.

I doubt the anomalies in the 10k are your issue, or it would be more localized, (deep stria, chipped edge). I would look more at your lapping technique as both stones are not improving a 4k. Chef’s Knives to Go sells an excellent dual grit 400/1K diamond plate for $30 that is a great plate for the money and will make lapping and maintenance easier and consistent for you.

If you are going to use Wet & Dry, use quality paper 120 -220 on a flat surface, I use a dollar store steel cookie sheet. Make sure to bevel or round the edges, as they are the last thing to contact the bevel on an X stroke. A sharp or chipped stone edge will bugger a bevel in one stroke.

Before you waste away a lot of stone, try lapping on a fresh sheet of paper and bevel the edges. Also try soaking your stones, Kings are thirsty stones, keep the stone surface wet, you should be pushing a puddle of water across the stone face when honing.

Pics of the razor always help in diagnosing problems.