Thread: Can't get 2 razors to shave

I have zero ability to photograph the edge to show a set bevel. You do have to roll the blade back and forth in front of your loupe to see the sparkles and white lines. If the bevel is actually set, finding and seeing the tip of the ‘V’ is not easy, especially as a new person to honing. If the bevel is actually set, you can strop on clean linen and leather and get a passable shave.

Originally Posted by CrescentCityRazors

Does the entire length of the edge shave arm hair easily?

yes

Originally Posted by CrescentCityRazors

...Now if you get good coverage from the next stone, hone until you feel the razor sort of getting sucky or sticky with the hone. It will slightly resist your effort to stroke it along the hone. This is called stiction and you usually start seeing it at around the 8k level but if you are very perceptive and you are really nailing it, you will feel it at the 4k stage. It will increase, then stop increasing. That's where you stop, or at least shift into a stage finish mode. Honing for too long can give you a bit of fin or wire edge, unless pressure is absolutely dead light...

Does taping the spine interfere with stiction?

Originally Posted by mpukas

yes


Does taping the spine interfere with stiction?

Yeah. Forget it. I forgot you were using tape. Just go until the bevel setting scratches are completely gone, and sharpness has increased and then ceased increasing. You will possibly notice a different feel when the edge is fully developed for that stage, but you will also notice a different feel from penetrating deeply into the tape, loading the stone with tape and tape gum, wearing down all the way to steel, etc.

re: tape, I've read/listened to quite a bit about opinions, reason why and why not, etc. I'm still rolling it around in m y head. I'm reluctant to even ask questions about it, but here's one - I've some Kapton tape on order. The reason I'm using it is I've read/been told it's more abrasion resistant. Should I tape the spine w/ a layer of black electrical tape and then a layer of Kapton, or just kapton? Thanks!

There are a lot of opinions. Here’s my thoughts.
Kapton is suppose to more abrasion resistant and thinner, but we are talking really small numbers in comparing. If you are using the tape to build the spine to correct for geometry issues, yes electrical and then Kapton, however if it’s just to save the spine from excessive or premature wear, just use the Kapton.
As a massive generalization, people that are new to honing razors put far too much pressure in general, but more specifically, too much pressure on the spine. It causes the spine to wear far more quickly than the edge. So I think most people should use tape until they can hone a razor without chewing up the tape.

Yes, Kapton over electrical. Start your tape at the spine over the heel, if you tape the tang and accidently hone on the tang you compound the angle,

Starting your tape over the heel or before it eliminates this potential problem.

For the razor you are currently posting on I would use 2 layers of electrical and one of Kapton.

Tape, No Tape? There is no good reason, not to use tape.

Fellas, here's an update. I've been practicing, carefully, and observing the effects. Honestly, I didn't want to do updates on every little thing I did. I needed to take some time and digest the info given to me here, apply it, and see what happened.

I've been focusing on my x-stroke technique and pressure across the entire length of the blade. Looking at the stria under the scope and observing what happens on the stones. One thing I realized, and this will be obvious to you all and is now to me, the synthetic naguras I was using to create slurry were also introducing more coarse grit particulate and causing deeper scratches. I stopped using a synthetic nagura and would only use a worn-out coarse DMT to build a very small amount of slurry, do a few sets of x-strokes, and then a few more sets with no slurry under a constant water drip. I feel this made a big difference in how the scratch pattern looks under the scope.

I've doing x-strokes w/ one hand and being very careful in applying torque and paying attention to edge contact on the stone throughout the stroke. A slight slurry is very useful for me to watch as it washes up the blade face, and I've been adjusting the torque/pressure to get even contact. I've been using 1 layer of black tape + 1 layer of the high-temp tape, and still changing it between stones. I've been using sharpie on the bevel, and I'm getting even wear from heel to toe with just 2 or even 1 stroke.

I had re-created the upswept toe and set a new bevel on it. But I've been having a hard time maintaining it, and it's nearly ground out again. I've been practicing raising the heel off the spine and focusing just at the toe upsweep, but I can't yet maintain the same angle from stone to stone and keep the stria even. Needed to take a break from that for a bit, as it was frustrating me...

So... end result is I've shaved with it a few times after a honing session. After one of my first honing sessions after my last post, I was very frustrated that the edge didn't feel sharp at all; just to experiment, I stropped on leather, and the edge felt good; so I stropped a little on diamond paste, leather again, and had a surprisingly good shave. But thought I could do better, so honed again; stropped with chro-ox on hanging canvas + latigo leather; not a close shave, and razor burn that lasted for a few days after. Back to the hones, best stria I've had thus far; stropped 40 laps on 1micron diamond paste, 40 laps .5micron diamond spray on felt, 40 laps leather - had a very close shave, but the edge cut me. The spike in the toe gouged me twice, at the side of each ear along the sideburns; and and when doing a light touch-up final pass a slight evulsion on the jaw line, with skin pulled taught. I'd say the edge is very sharp, but not a comfortable shave. I've never produced an edge quite like this before. I definitely need to mute the spike at the toe before shaving with it again.

Overall, I'm happy with my honing progression from all of the great feedback all of you have given me. I've learned a lot, and can see positive results. But, I still have a ways to go. I'm still frustrated with this razor. I'm just grinding the edge away. It's shaving better now than ever before, but still not as good as my Dovo Best was, even when I wasn't honing that blade nearly as well as I am this one. I still aspire to get a good natural finishing stone and be able to strop just on cloth and leather.

Thanks again for all of the great feedback and insight. I really appreciate it!

These pics are after prior to the last shave just described, after stropping.

Originally Posted by mpukas

I had re-created the upswept toe and set a new bevel on it. But I've been having a hard time maintaining it, and it's nearly ground out again.

Wow, quite an up date. On the good side it sounds as though you are learning a lot.

The above quote does not make much sense to me. Once the bevel is set there should be very little change to the shape of the razor as you are refining the edge.

It still looks as though there are a lot of deep non uniform scratches on the bevels in the pictures. Are your strops clean?

I kept honing after re-setting the upsweep at the toe, as practice, and trying to get the stria to be uniform and refined from one stone to the next. I'm succeeding at reducing the height of the blade very well, LOL!

Yes, my strops are clean. I had just cleaned and re-charged them prior to this shave. I wipe the blade clean between each strop to avoid cross-contamination.

Forgot to add, for my most recent honing sessions, I've been using 4k, 8k, and 12k stones.

As I progress from each stone, to my naked eye and my 40x loupe, I can see noticeable changes in how the bevel looks - it gets more polished and shinier at each stone. But under the scope, it doesn't appear to change much. Each stone shows similar depth scratches. What does change is the angle and uniformity. So in that I can see results, and I try to focus on what I've done to get uniform scratches.

A couple of questions;

How important is it, how much does it matter, that the stria is perpendicular to the edge? I get that the stria should be even. I've been trying to keep the stria perpendicular, and therefore paying close attention to the path of the x-stroke particularly at the tip.

With an up-swept toe, I assume, and gather from reading here, that the heel of the blade needs to be come off the stone as well as be raised off the stone, and the end of the arc of an x-stroke needs to be modified to accommodate the up-sweep. Correct, not correct? It's been difficult to keep the stria even at the tip.

I wear thin sideburns (I'm mainly bald, but trim my head and sideburns w/ an electric clipper once a week, therefore I don't have a cleanly shaven head; did that for about 6 months just to try it, succeeded, but ultimately wasn't worth the effort to me). I like to get close with the tip of the razor, but this tip gouged me twice, as I mentioned. How much of the tip is usual to mute, and what's the best practice to do so? Or, should I try to increase the upsweep further and reset the bevel there?

Thanks again fellas.