Thread: Learning Jnats with Microscope

Ok, here we are at the second round of my Nagura's Marathon...

This time I used the Black Tsushima Nagura & the Asagi Tomo. The Base Stone was the same Nakayama Kiita Koppa I used in previous test.

First of all, I jointed the bevel as suggested by Euclid440 in order to reduce or eliminate the chip on the edge.
After the first pass of Tsushima I jointed it again and went on a second pass with lighter slurry. Didn't like how I felt the edge with my fingers (and treetop hair test), so I made a third pass with ticker slurry again.

Then I made a couple of passes with the Asagi Tomo. The first started with ticker slurry, then I thinned it. After Microscope check, I made a second pass with the remaining slurry and a bit more water. Stropping went as previous test.
Btw. my knoweledge is not enough to understand if there are significant differences from natural leather stropping and the synth one... Is it a bit finer?

Microscope evidence shows (I believe) a finer Kasumi finish by Asagi Tomo than the previous Nakayama one (I post a comparative image too), a reduced chip and more straighten edge. Finger & Treetop test still leave me some doubt... but we'll see tomorrow, when I'll shave with it.
















Comparative Image: Nakayama (Upper) Vs. Asagi finish (Lower)

That looks like a nice fine bevel and straight edge. One of my favorite tomo is a hard Asagi.

Do you have a linen strop? Linen is more aggressive than most leather. But different leathers will finish differently. You can do a strop progression, but that is another rabbit hole for another day.

I prefer vintage horse hide/shell and Kanoyama. I use firehose linen between stones and for finishing the Kanoyama vintage linen and leather.

Looks like you picked up some chipping, from the Synthetic leather, to the right of the chip and near the right edge of photo. Make sure it is clean.

Edges and bevels look good, you have come a long way in a short time.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

That looks like a nice fine bevel and straight edge. One of my favorite tomo is a hard Asagi.

Do you have a linen strop? Linen is more aggressive than most leather. But different leathers will finish differently. You can do a strop progression, but that is another rabbit hole for another day.

I prefer vintage horse hide/shell and Kanoyama. I use firehose linen between stones and for finishing the Kanoyama vintage linen and leather.

Looks like you picked up some chipping, from the Synthetic leather, to the right of the chip and near the right edge of photo. Make sure it is clean.

Edges and bevels look good, you have come a long way in a short time.

I've a cotton strop, not linen. Should I use that betweeen stones?

Regarding chipping I'm not able to identify these small ones. Could you please let me see were are? I post a larger image below.

Who knows why ehhh?

Try it and see, it may be more aggressive than you think. I like linen because it is aggressive but not too much. You are looking to clean up an edge before going to another grit, or before you go to leather.

Stropping is way Under rated.

You can buy vintage flax linen and it washes nicely if it is not nicked up or a few folks are selling firehose.

Or you can paste cotton or nylon. Here in the US at fabric stores you can buy a yard of nylon of 2” cotton strapping for just a few dollars. Some Chrome Oxide on that makes a nice, pasted strop between stones.

I think the damage was on a prior stone, but still make sure your strops are clean and dust free. I wipe mine down with a clean damp sponge and a damp microfiber, they dry in minutes.

Yep... the damages (where you put the arrows) were already from previous test: that was the final image. The final image of the new test is the one below.

Update after the second round:

Great shave! A tad less close than previous, but waaay smoother. Very sliding (also if this could be due to different soap too).

1) Nakayama kiita koppa + Tsushima Black Nagura + Nakayama (1) Tomo Nagura = Shave Test OK

2) Nakayama kiita koppa + Tsushima Black Nagura + Asagi Tomo Nagura = Shave Test OK

Last monday, the postman rang twice and delivered two different razors.
The first one was a Japanese NOS and the second was a vintage Svedish one to clean from some rust and hone.

Some expert friends (and japanese razors conoisseurs) suggested to test the NOS with factory sharpening and just some stropping. They said that could have been surprisingly good. Although hesitant, I accepted the advice and shaved that way.

Well, it shaved very close and quite smooth, despite a microscopic bevel aesthetically not very reassuring.

Next post I'll talk about the other razor, but this fact made me think about the importance of the basic sharpening and the creation of the bevel. It is a component that probably reaches 90% of the entire honing sequence: a well set and cutting bevel and we can shave in a good way. I believe to be able (once the bevel is set and that's already an hard job) to add a 5% more, to get a bit smoother shave (using a lot of time, work, knoweledge & stones)... but, the biggest effort for us amateur honers ... it is being able to add the missing 5%. And there the game gets tough. It takes years to refine techniques, knowledge, dexterity and ... that pinch of magic to take that last, apparently small step, which brings us closer to perfection.

Here's the bevel of the Japanese NOS:

As in my previous post, I got my third Swedish Jernbolaget from Eskilstuna - 5/8" NW

After a bit of cleanig, yesterday I honed it, using some of the Tomos we're talking about in this thread. This is not part of the analytic comparison that I'm carrying on, anyway, it is always part of my progressive learning of Jnats. Hope it could be useful for other newbies, like me, in this fashinating world of Jnats.

Used 1 layer of tape

Sequence: King 1K -> Naniwa SS 3K -> Nakayama Kiita Koppa + Black Tsushima Nagura (2 rounds) -> Asano Mejiro Nagura -> Asagi Tomo Nagura -> Final Stropping

I jointed the bevel at start and after King 1K. Then, after each stone/nagura made 10 laps on canvas to see how it could be useful to straighten & polish the edge instead of light jointing. For what I can understand it doesn't seems bad.

Had to work a bit to get a consistent bevel along the whole blade, as the razor was slightly warped, but think to have got it. Finger and treetop tests passed. Tomorrow we'll see how it shaves.

Interesting edge on the Japanese razor, looks like a high grit synthetic. You can see the polished edge from stropping.

It looks like the Mejiro is leaving some deep random stria, check to make sure you do not have any sharp corners that are chipping off or work the slurry a bit more with a flat surface of the stone to crush the slurry. Even with the added stria, the edge looks pretty straight from the Mejiro.

The Asagi removed much of the Mejiro scratching and added a few small random stria, but the edge looks very straight.

Hard to say if the Asagi is finer than the Mejiro. Both have good edges.

Swedish steel can be hard, it is interesting that the bevels look so much different from the Solingen. Adding a large variable makes it difficult to compare bevels.

Nice straight edges, it demonstrates that how bevels look can be deceiving to how they shave, especially when compared to the Japanese bevels and edge. And how you can tailor honing, stone selection to a specific razor for the best edges. For a more accurate comparison you want to limit variables.

Still, you should be able to find the finer nagura then do a shootout with those that appear to be the finest and do a shave test with the same razor.

Nice work.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Swedish steel can be hard, it is interesting that the bevels look so much different from the Solingen. Adding a large variable makes it difficult to compare bevels.

Nice straight edges, it demonstrates that how bevels look can be deceiving to how they shave, especially when compared to the Japanese bevels and edge. And how you can tailor honing, stone selection to a specific razor for the best edges. For a more accurate comparison you want to limit variables.

Still, you should be able to find the finer nagura then do a shootout with those that appear to be the finest and do a shave test with the same razor.

Nice work.

Euclid,

I've some svedish razors and doesn't seems to me the steel is too hard. If the razor is "in line" didn't found particular difficulty working on it. Rather, I find the variables in the type of grinding. Generally, but not always, I found near wedges/wedges more difficult (and often worse off) than hollows.

Yep, the appearance of the bevel can deceive a newbie, but that's why I'm trying to learn how the appearence compares with the real feelings/results on my face. E.g. for now what I learned is that a straight edge and positive finger test/ treetop lead almost always to a good keenes/sharpness, while a nice bevel finish can lead to a smoother shave. Each razor, of course, responds differently based on the type of steel, grinding, base stone and the different Naguras. All this is valid only for the same hand that works and the face that is shaved. For anyone else, the results can be more or less different. I really like this path of experimentation and comparison. It is truly formative, thanks also (and above all) to your enlightening interventions. Having a teacher who guides, advises, suggests and confirms or disproves what a beginner does and notes, is truly priceless and I feel very lucky for that. I really risk becoming monotonous with my thanks.

Apart from some "new" razor as in this case, I'll go on with the usual comparative experimentation: One Razor, One Stone and... lot of Naguras
Then I'll do the same tests on the Ozuku.
Everything that I will learn from these series will serve as a basis for the future, both with regard to different razors/grindings, and when (I hope in the not too far future) I will take some more performing and (hopefully) more handy base stones to work on.