Thread: Straight Razors Dull Despite Little Use

Originally Posted by CrescentCityRazors

You positively absolutely refuse to follow one honer, using kit and technique identical to his.

You seem equally unwilling to read. I actually did follow the exact technique my local guy showed me, in person, on my stones. Certainly I am not skilled at it the way he is, and also that was on a much more perfect razor, so it didn't play out.

I also followed the scienceofsharp plan step by step. Again, it's intentionally a simple guide for simple razors using a simple setup, I couldn't get it with this razor.

"You are getting bad results therefore you are not following instructions" is really, really ignorant and pointlessly insulting. I am following instructions verbatim. I said myself that if my results are not approaching anything useful following a text guide, then I am on the lookout for a more visually followable guide especially for a warped razor. This is indeed a warped razor too, it is not a bismarck it's a colonel conk, which is the most notorious Dovo line for quality control problems.

Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

Sorry but I have to agree. You are going in too many directions. Pick one, ANY one (well, almost any) and follow it until you get success. Master that then venture others.

See above. I'm looking out for something I can follow start to finish *for warped razors.* Both the in person lessons I got and the scienceofsharp guides are not for warped razors.

It does remain a wide open question whether I could get decent results on a razor with sound geometry, I freely admit and have many times already. I will look around ebay for something decent in the near future. It seems like there is a major skill barrier for warped razors, even slightly warped. I would be happy to buy one off of a member here, honed nicely or not. I just need something that doesn't have curveballs that require special techniques.

Originally Posted by rickytimothy

You seem equally unwilling to read. I actually did follow the exact technique my local guy showed me, in person, on my stones. Certainly I am not skilled at it the way he is, and also that was on a much more perfect razor, so it didn't play out.

I also followed the scienceofsharp plan step by step. Again, it's intentionally a simple guide for simple razors using a simple setup, I couldn't get it with this razor.

"You are getting bad results therefore you are not following instructions" is really, really ignorant and pointlessly insulting. I am following instructions verbatim. I said myself that if my results are not approaching anything useful following a text guide, then I am on the lookout for a more visually followable guide especially for a warped razor. This is indeed a warped razor too, it is not a bismarck it's a colonel conk, which is the most notorious Dovo line for quality control problems.



See above. I'm looking out for something I can follow start to finish *for warped razors.* Both the in person lessons I got and the scienceofsharp guides are not for warped razors.

It does remain a wide open question whether I could get decent results on a razor with sound geometry, I freely admit and have many times already. I will look around ebay for something decent in the near future. It seems like there is a major skill barrier for warped razors, even slightly warped. I would be happy to buy one off of a member here, honed nicely or not. I just need something that doesn't have curveballs that require special techniques.

Science of Sharp is a good site, but it is a sharpening site. This is a razor site, and there are other razor sites where you will find most of the same players on the field. It's a community, and we are all about razors. Which do you think is better, for honing your RAZOR? You liked Paul's edge. Why not emulate him, and shoot for the same sort of edge as your goal and benchmark? And if it is a Dovo Bismarck that you have, I can promise you it is definitely not warped to any significant degree unless you have honed it to be so. Also I think we have already discussed your local sharpening guy.

Further, if you are going to mess about with entry level razors or old abused vintage razors, you WILL find that hardly any will have perfect geometry, and it is up to the honer to set the bevel and make it right. It is part of honing razors. It held me back in my early days but the Eureka moment was when I took my first expendable and cheap at under $3 (at the time) Gold Dollar, and resolved to beat it into submission, and was rewarded with a bevel that definitely did not have consistent face width, but had two faces that met perfectly and could be honed to as good an edge as any other razor. As over the years GD's quality control started to become less horrible, I found that a gentler touch was possible, and I got much better at honing other razors. The level of brutality vs finesse varies with the razor but the underlying truth is "Do no harm that is not necessary to make it shave well". If you began with a new Dovo Bismarck and the geometry sucks, there is only one person who could have made it so, but the good news is it can almost certainly be corrected if not ignored, and that correction can come from a competent honer, or it can even come from you, but not if you are attacking in random directions and leaning to your own perceptions and misunderstandings. The fact that after all this time, with all these respected honers offering and giving help, you still are not achieving even satisfactory results, is self evident.

Don't give up, but get your technique from someone grounded in the community, one guy, and stick with it. I PROMISE this will work if you DO IT HIS WAY, with HIS CHOSEN TOOL SET, and do not wander or meander. Meanwhile, Paul has made a killer offer and I urge you to take it, listen to his analysis and advice, and meanwhile get a whole bouquet of GD's to practice on. The P-81 and the 208 are actually pretty nice razors. A good honing, a bit of polish, and new scales, and you would never know that they were not $120 razors. The humble and clunky #66 can be turned into a nimble sports car of a razor, with enough care and attention, but can also be "just honed" after the rough geometry is tamed, and made to shave quite well. Little financial risk, plenty of cannon fodder, no sleep lost over destroying one or two. I am afraid that maybe you are well on your way to a massacre on your Bismarck, and it is time to back off, take a deep breath, and re-evaluate your grand strategy once and for all.

I'll try some gold dollars, sure. For now the ability of a razor to hold the edge is not even relevant to me, it just needs to be sound enough of shape to practice on. The tool set I have is the tool set I'm going to have, I'm not switching out my equipment, so the whole idea of finding someone and copying their entire setup is already in the trash. I know my setup is good enough for a fact, though. I guess I can look for someone who does it with similar stones. The Dovo is not a bismarck, and came warped from the factory, as they are commonly known to.

Originally Posted by rickytimothy

... The tool set I have is the tool set I'm going to have, I'm not switching out my equipment, so the whole idea of finding someone and copying their entire setup is already in the trash. I know my setup is good enough for a fact, though. I guess I can look for someone who does it with similar stones....

Then get someone to help you learn how on your stones. I have all those stones and have done that with others. What about the local guy? Has he not helped you with that razor? Most of the honers here have a trunk full of stones and can match closely enough to get you there.

If that colonel conk is warped as you say it can be analyzed and corrected. You just have to know how to do it. Whether it is by building up tape or using a narrow stone or the edge/side of the stone there are threads here about that very topic. I have one of those and it takes a fabulous edge and gives an outstanding shave so yours is capable of the same.

I would give you a piece of advice though. Don't insult people who are going out of their way trying to help you. In complete candor I am starting to lose interest and I have done a LOT to help you. I'm not saying that to pat myself on the back. In fact I normally prefer that it goes unsaid but I say that for your own good. I am only one of many trying to get you there. That said I have made a very generous offer which you don't even acknowledge as have others. My offer is reaching its sell by date. Don't let that happen with everyone.

Just my 2¢ worth.

Gentlemen
Keep it civil, please.
Use Private Message for judgemental observations

Dave

Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

Then get someone to help you learn how on your stones. I have all those stones and have done that with others. What about the local guy? Has he not helped you with that razor? Most of the honers here have a trunk full of stones and can match closely enough to get you there.

If that colonel conk is warped as you say it can be analyzed and corrected. You just have to know how to do it. Whether it is by building up tape or using a narrow stone or the edge/side of the stone there are threads here about that very topic. I have one of those and it takes a fabulous edge and gives an outstanding shave so yours is capable of the same.

I would give you a piece of advice though. Don't insult people who are going out of their way trying to help you. In complete candor I am starting to lose interest and I have done a LOT to help you. I'm not saying that to pat myself on the back. In fact I normally prefer that it goes unsaid but I say that for your own good. I am only one of many trying to get you there. That said I have made a very generous offer which you don't even acknowledge as have others. My offer is reaching its sell by date. Don't let that happen with everyone.

I am looking for good guides, especially a video series, that uses similar stones as me, and deals with the nuances of honing on warped razors, I haven't found anything solid yet, as most of the guides that deal with warped razors are made by people who have already committed the nuances to muscle memory. They give out advice e.g., "make sure to move pressure across the length of the blade as you do the stroke." That is truthful information I'm sure, but it's evidently not enough to get me from a dull blade to a sharp blade, as I have tried exactly that, and multiple subtle variations of exactly that (an inexperienced beginner's interpretation of their words, of course,) and can run the pad of my thumb over the blade without it even feeling particularly sticky, so the words aren't doing it for me.

Local guy showed me how to hone a razor with very good geometry, which doesn't seem to work for me at all with this somewhat warped blade (jury is still out on if it's just me doing a really bad job using his technique, or if the technique he showed me simply does not work on a warped razor.) He did sharpen this exact razor in the past, and has, as you suggested, tried to correct for the warp by wearing the spine. It is substantially less warped now than it was when I bought it, but still defeating me outright. I could call him up in the future but it's very inconvenient as he lives over an hour from me. I am confident this blade can hold a nice edge, as it has in the past, I just need to get it back to that place.

I don't want to send it out to you or anyone else, as the entire basis of this thread was that I had already done exactly this before, though to a less skilled honer, and I managed to dull the edge within a couple shaves (admittedly with very poor shaving technique, probably bad stropping technique, probably dropping it on a towel at some point, and spaced out over the course of a year.) Yours was dulling too, but seems to respond much better to the pasted strop than my Dovo does, by far. I do appreciate the generosity, especially considering how generous you already have been sending me that razor for free, and the pasted strop, getting it professionally honed again just is not what I'm going for. I'm at the point where finessing a nice edge out of this razor is more important to me than having it sharp. Probably much frustration to come with regards to that.

I did order a bunch of gold dollar razors earlier, they were *extremely* suspiciously cheap, they said $30 total for 4 in my cart, then got discounted to $5 total as I purchased them (!??!?). These apparently are known for awful geometry, and are so cheap that I can be as impatient as I want with them without losing anything of value, so I feel like its a wise way forward.

Job15, is a member here has a fantastic series on honing and setting a bevel on YouTube.

Thanks, I'll bookmark his channel and check them out in the near future. edit: What's the channel called?

My local guy suggested that perhaps the reason my results are so far from passable is that the angle of the razor is too aggressive, so that the sides of the edge simply will not touch without using tape on the spine. That seems quite unlikely to me, I'll measure it shortly to get an idea of where the angle is at. I did tape the edge and got equally bad results so I have no personal evidence for this, but he did choose to use tape when he sharpened it.

To be clear I didn't say wear down the spine. That is sometimes an option but I normally try to avoid that as it can affect bevel angle. I prefer to use a narrow stoneor even the side of the stone but in the case of combination stones that's hard to do although not impossible. There's a trick where you can tape the spine and "hone" the spine until the tape wears through on the high spots then tape again and repeat until it wears evenly all the way across. Now that's if the spine only is warped. Originally (at least typically) the spine and edge would match and both would be warped thereby making it better to use a narrow stone but if it has been honed much it's hard to say plus sometimes it's not an even warp, it's a twisted warp.

Its hard to say what it is without seeing it. That's why it's hard to diagnose or give suggestions or instructions without knowing.

Originally Posted by rickytimothy

Thanks, I'll bookmark his channel and check them out in the near future. edit: What's the channel called?

Edge Dynamics