Thread: Straight Razors Dull Despite Little Use

Originally Posted by rickytimothy

I was unclear, all of my attempts were rolling X-stroke, the only real variation was whether I alternated direction every stroke, how much pressure I put on it, and whether I slid the razor laterally across the hone or tried to keep a straight path with simply adjusted region of pressure from my hands.

It should go without saying that I understand this is a tricky technique, and whatever my version of the "rolling x-stroke" was is probably incorrect. GSSixgun did give me zoom lessons on that specific technique though so I do get the idea if not the execution.

I'm buying a tripod one of these days so I can actually demonstrate what I'm trying to do.

From the wording in your posts, that you're trying to keep the razor in full contact on the stone, it sounds like your rolling X may well be wrong. With a proper rolling X you will not have the razor fully flat on the stone. It will only contact the heel initially & then other areas as you slide the razor off the hone.

Something like using a butcher's steel to give a loose analogy.

I was going to suggest you make a video.

Not sure if this will help explain or just confuse more. But when I was new to honing Victor showed me something that helped me to understand.
Take a diner plate and put it on the table. Think of the rim of the plate being the razors edge and the base of the plate being the spine. With one finger push down on the edge of the plate until the edge touches the table. Now rotate the plate with the edge and base staying in contact with the table a 1/4 turn. This is a rolling stroke. The edge and spine stay in contact but move. Then after you get that figured out the next thing is to learn that the point of contact on the edge and spine needs to make an X pattern while moving across the stone.

Id draw a picture all i can draw are stick people.

Originally Posted by Gasman

Not sure if this will help explain or just confuse more. But when I was new to honing Victor showed me something that helped me to understand.
Take a diner plate and put it on the table. Think of the rim of the plate being the razors edge and the base of the plate being the spine. With one finger push down on the edge of the plate until the edge touches the table. Now rotate the plate with the edge and base staying in contact with the table a 1/4 turn. This is a rolling stroke. The edge and spine stay in contact but move. Then after you get that figured out the next thing is to learn that the point of contact on the edge and spine needs to make an X pattern while moving across the stone.

Id draw a picture all i can draw are stick people.

In addition to this. If honing on a 3" wide hone, concentrate on honing on the 1/3 of the hone that is closest to your body.

That might be a bit much for you to do right now, but it'll help you down the road, once learned in coalition with the rolling X stroke

By 1/3 of the hone, I'm not sure if you mean the stone is sideways or lengthwise.

This idea of the only place the edge is contacting the stone being a very slim area on the side of the stone is exactly what I was going for. Much easier said than done of course. I forgot to bring my razor to work where my nice cameras are so I'll get photos later this week of the degree of warp.

When you're doing a rolling x-stroke, it would probably never make sense to alternate direction every stroke, correct? Seems like it would be very challenging getting the roll just right if you flip the blade around constantly.

As onimaru55 suggests, make a video and let us all see.

We can discuss it till the cows come home and get nowhere.

When i first started shaving with a straight i was really bad at it of course.

Some of the guys here will probably remember the two videos i made, i got so much useful advice and i honestly felt like i had a bathroom full of experienced guys helping me.

Fire up that camera, or iPad or phone and let us see, I promise you wont regret it, you can set the video on YouTube so that only people you give the link to can see it - of course share it with everyone on here or it would be a pointless exercise

Originally Posted by rickytimothy

By 1/3 of the hone, I'm not sure if you mean the stone is sideways or lengthwise.

This idea of the only place the edge is contacting the stone being a very slim area on the side of the stone is exactly what I was going for. Much easier said than done of course. I forgot to bring my razor to work where my nice cameras are so I'll get photos later this week of the degree of warp.

When you're doing a rolling x-stroke, it would probably never make sense to alternate direction every stroke, correct? Seems like it would be very challenging getting the roll just right if you flip the blade around constantly.

Like this.



I always hone by flipping to each side for a complete pass. Of equal pressure and distance across the stone. One mimic's the other. I never hone one side, then the other.

Probably why your having trouble setting a bevel. Things have to be equal on both sides, consistently.

Originally Posted by outback

Like this.

I always hone by flipping to each side for a complete pass. Of equal pressure and distance across the stone. One mimic's the other. I never hone one side, then the other.

Probably why your having trouble setting a bevel. Things have to be equal on both sides, consistently.

I tried both multiple times (alternating sides for one complete pass, or one side at a time). I'm really not sure what to even suspect at this point. I watched very carefully the amount of pressure my teacher used when he was setting a bevel, even using a scale to get a close idea of what kind of force he was putting down, and am making very deliberate effort to not over-pressure the razor as I'm honing, yet I'm getting really bad results still. The obvious conclusion should automatically be "you are using too much pressure" I think. Maybe it's true even with my effort to avoid it.

I'll order a tripod for my phone tonight, and take a shot at it again when it shows up. The only reason I haven't filmed it yet is lack of tripod.

Maybe part of the issue is that the blade is not actually smiling completely, but curls off a little bit at the toe. Maybe a full rolling x-stroke motion is counter-productive if either most of the blade is touching at once, or just the toe is. (Pictures to come.)

Originally Posted by rickytimothy

I'll order a tripod for my phone tonight, and take a shot at it again when it shows up. The only reason I haven't filmed it yet is lack of tripod.

I haven't got a tripod either. I just balanced my iPad on a box.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

From the wording in your posts, that you're trying to keep the razor in full contact on the stone, it sounds like your rolling X may well be wrong. With a proper rolling X you will not have the razor fully flat on the stone. It will only contact the heel initially & then other areas as you slide the razor off the hone.

Something like using a butcher's steel to give a loose analogy.

This is the idea with honing on the side/edge of the stone. Picture the whole spine on the stone and how if it were warped it would not lie flat because the whole length is on it. Instead of it sitting on a 3 inch wide stone if it sat in a 1inch wide stone the warp doesn't affect it because it's a narrow section of the edge and spine.

Originally Posted by Gasman

Not sure if this will help explain or just confuse more. But when I was new to honing Victor showed me something that helped me to understand.
Take a diner plate and put it on the table. Think of the rim of the plate being the razors edge and the base of the plate being the spine. With one finger push down on the edge of the plate until the edge touches the table. Now rotate the plate with the edge and base staying in contact with the table a 1/4 turn. This is a rolling stroke. The edge and spine stay in contact but move. Then after you get that figured out the next thing is to learn that the point of contact on the edge and spine needs to make an X pattern while moving across the stone.

Id draw a picture all i can draw are stick people.

Think of this and then picture rocking the blade heal contacting first then toe as it nears the edge.

Originally Posted by outback

In addition to this. If honing on a 3" wide hone, concentrate on honing on the 1/3 of the hone that is closest to your body.

That might be a bit much for you to do right now, but it'll help you down the road, once learned in coalition with the rolling X stroke

I actually posted something a while back about that where I drew a line about an inch in like Mike showed and the image is to think of keeping that line at roughly a 90° to the point of the edge that it intersects. That makes you automatically do a rolling X. Then it also gives you a point of reference reference to watch to keep THAT point of the edge in contact with the stone

Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

This is the idea with honing on the side/edge of the stone. Picture the whole spine on the stone and how if it were warped it would not lie flat because the whole length is on it. Instead of it sitting on a 3 inch wide stone if it sat in a 1inch wide stone the warp doesn't affect it because it's a narrow section of the edge and spine.

I definitely get the concept at least in my head. Possibly the most surprising thing when I take a video is that my technique is not as brutal as people probably imagine considering the awful results. I can't blame anyone for assuming that, the results should speak for themselves.

When I tried to set a bevel in front of my local guy, he told me it looked pretty much normal to him. I wasn't trying rolling X though.