Thread: Straight Razors Dull Despite Little Use

Originally Posted by onimaru55

From the wording in your posts, that you're trying to keep the razor in full contact on the stone, it sounds like your rolling X may well be wrong. With a proper rolling X you will not have the razor fully flat on the stone. It will only contact the heel initially & then other areas as you slide the razor off the hone.

Something like using a butcher's steel to give a loose analogy.

This is the idea with honing on the side/edge of the stone. Picture the whole spine on the stone and how if it were warped it would not lie flat because the whole length is on it. Instead of it sitting on a 3 inch wide stone if it sat in a 1inch wide stone the warp doesn't affect it because it's a narrow section of the edge and spine.

Originally Posted by Gasman

Not sure if this will help explain or just confuse more. But when I was new to honing Victor showed me something that helped me to understand.
Take a diner plate and put it on the table. Think of the rim of the plate being the razors edge and the base of the plate being the spine. With one finger push down on the edge of the plate until the edge touches the table. Now rotate the plate with the edge and base staying in contact with the table a 1/4 turn. This is a rolling stroke. The edge and spine stay in contact but move. Then after you get that figured out the next thing is to learn that the point of contact on the edge and spine needs to make an X pattern while moving across the stone.

Id draw a picture all i can draw are stick people.

Think of this and then picture rocking the blade heal contacting first then toe as it nears the edge.

Originally Posted by outback

In addition to this. If honing on a 3" wide hone, concentrate on honing on the 1/3 of the hone that is closest to your body.

That might be a bit much for you to do right now, but it'll help you down the road, once learned in coalition with the rolling X stroke

I actually posted something a while back about that where I drew a line about an inch in like Mike showed and the image is to think of keeping that line at roughly a 90° to the point of the edge that it intersects. That makes you automatically do a rolling X. Then it also gives you a point of reference reference to watch to keep THAT point of the edge in contact with the stone

Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

This is the idea with honing on the side/edge of the stone. Picture the whole spine on the stone and how if it were warped it would not lie flat because the whole length is on it. Instead of it sitting on a 3 inch wide stone if it sat in a 1inch wide stone the warp doesn't affect it because it's a narrow section of the edge and spine.

I definitely get the concept at least in my head. Possibly the most surprising thing when I take a video is that my technique is not as brutal as people probably imagine considering the awful results. I can't blame anyone for assuming that, the results should speak for themselves.

When I tried to set a bevel in front of my local guy, he told me it looked pretty much normal to him. I wasn't trying rolling X though.

"The results should speak for themselves"

Good point.

I flip my blade and hone one stroke per side. It sounds like your Talking about doing more laps per side of the razor. Then flipping and doing more laps on the other side.

I dont recommend it. One stroke per side and flip. Also dont hone edge leading then pull back so your spine leading on the second pass. Im not sure if you are doing these moves but just wanted to say it. Video when you can.

As Outback showed some people hone side to side. Others hone away and back at them. Push and pull. No right and wrong. Just what works for you.

Honing takes time and Practice.

I feel like I'm being really contradictory the last couple of days but I do back and forth strokes like what your saying Jerry all the time and get good results. Especially on a total ark progression that almost all I do and is up to the very end on each stone.

That being said, I don't really recommend that until your muscle memory is good and I also ONLY do that palming the stone.

Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

I feel like I'm being really contradictory the last couple of days but I do back and forth strokes like what your saying Jerry all the time and get good results. Especially on a total ark progression that almost all I do and is up to the very end on each stone.

That being said, I don't really recommend that until your muscle memory is good and I also ONLY do that palming the stone.

Yeah, I know for a fact it is a viable method of honing a razor, given the requisite skill. It appears easier according to the eye test, but seems like it may actually be more difficult to do correctly, due to the temptation to do it quickly, or with force. I'll do whatever you guys think is the most beginner friendly.

I'll try to make a point of not emulating the speed of the strokes next time. Not that I was going full speed, but trying to do it quickly probably doesn't help my already poor odds.

IMO... Like Paul said, Half Stokes are not for a beginner. JMO. Not that you cant do it. Full X strokes, learning the feel of the blade on the stone, understanding when killing the edge lightly and continue, etc... One of my ah ha moments was when i learn that i needed to bring the entire edge up to bevel set at the same time. Not just the toe and continue until the rest matched it. Takeing the edge backwards a touch and bringing the entire edge back together.

We will be watching for the vids.
Just keep learning. It takes time and many razors to learn to properly hone. You will get there if you keep putting in the time. A couple years from now you wont understand why you were having issues learning.

I'll try to rephrase it in a way that makes more sense:

First method I tried: On one side of the blade: push edge leading, pull back with edge trailing, repeat ~20 times, then flip over to the other side of the blade, and do the same thing.

This is the way gssixgun and my local teacher showed me how to set a bevel. I had very little success with the Dovo.

Second method: Full stroke, i.e., push edge leading to the end of the stone, flip blade, pull back edge leading. Repeat ~30 times, then finish with some ~20 full strokes with the same alternating pattern, but all edge trailing.

This is the ScienceofSharp style of doing it.

I tried both methods with two different styles of rolling x stroke each. The first style was to push the blade straight down the stone, but to roll pressure so that different parts of the edge touch the stone during the stroke. The second was the traditional method where you laterally slide the edge across the stone from heel to toe as you push down the hone.

I tried almost zero pressure on my first attempts, and then more pressure on the following attempts. All of them basically had the same result, one small patch of the blade would catch hair on my arm, maybe 1cm in width on the edge, and the rest was dull. The area of the blade that cut actually did change between the methods.

Tripod is ordered, I'll record soon.

The other guys are right though in your case I think. I would stick to doing full X strokes, edge leading right then edge leading left and keep it going that way until you're getting good results. I think it's too much to think about the half X strokes like what you're describing in the first method if you're not already getting good results. I'd consider that an advanced technique.