Thread: When did Breadknifing get popular?

Its funny that we have guys wanting to shave with a straight but use wild new honing methods . . . er, restoration methods.

I agree that its not a honing method. Most of the honing problems I've had were spine related.

But, its a fast way to get rid of a bevel.

It reminds me of interior decorating with handgrenades.

Most of the guys I've seen on here lately have a good handle on whats going on. I think we see a lot of "whatever" works for you when guys say something is working for them. Very few people want to buck success.

I think where we need to head is a series of pictures that show what a chip is that gets honed out and what a nick is that gets "breadknifed". Being rather traditional I'm not even sure I should actually be using the term "breadknife". I don't really bother reading the forums anymore, I assume that when someone recommends breadknifing that they are also emphasizing the need to recreate a bevel. Recreating a bevel would take me hours and hours.

It sure is true that we have a lot of underhoners too.

I think the diagnoses of honing issues is a big part of the "honemiester" moniker. I wonder if we could build up a better common set of instructions for fixing bevels and assessing sharpness.

Very productive thread though I'd say.

Originally Posted by Quick

Ouch. I wonder if that might have effected the temper?

I use a hand turned wheel that I got from some Amish dudes in PA. The same wheel as was shown on here a while back for some 600 dollars. I paid about 10 for mine though.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/basic...ng-wheels.html

I don't know... many are very set against breadknifing but most of those will make the exception that it's appropriate in extreme cases and or for frowns/smiles. Seems the main argument against is that it may be unnecessary and result in more material being lost than necessary and/or a tremendous amount of extra work. All this in the context of newbies honing an unknown blade. Lots of you experienced guys (that's important) say that you have bread knifed blades in the past and would do so in the future if warranted. The key point being that you can tell if it's warranted.

What about the flip side? What about the following example:
Let's say I have my new blade that came shave ready so I know what the end goal is.
I have all my equipment and I've watched all the honing videos and read all the tutorials.
I get a quality brand razor off of eBay that's in very rough shape (rough enough that I know it's in rough shape).
So without pics, what's your advice?

I expect it would go something like "How rough is it?" to which the response would be "How do I tell?"... So isn't there any value in starting from a known condition?

Originally Posted by Quick

I don't know... many are very set against breadknifing but most of those will make the exception that it's appropriate in extreme cases and or for frowns/smiles. Seems the main argument against is that it may be unnecessary and result in more material being lost than necessary and/or a tremendous amount of extra work. All this in the context of newbies honing an unknown blade. Lots of you experienced guys (that's important) say that you have bread knifed blades in the past and would do so in the future if warranted. The key point being that you can tell if it's warranted.

What about the flip side? What about the following example:
Let's say I have my new blade that came shave ready so I know what the end goal is.
I have all my equipment and I've watched all the honing videos and read all the tutorials.
I get a quality brand razor off of eBay that's in very rough shape (rough enough that I know it's in rough shape).
So without pics, what's your advice?

I expect it would go something like "How rough is it?" to which the response would be "How do I tell?"... So isn't there any value in starting from a known condition?

My advice, assuming you have a shave ready to gauge your end goal, (and no way to upload photos) is go for it!

It's your blade, and your time so do what you want with it.

Either it will go great, and you would have learned a valuable tool, or it will be a nightmare, and you would have learned a valuable lesson.

I agree. I have restored 8 razors so far, and have 10 or so waiting. So far, I have ruined 2. Both times I learned a valuable lesson. Learning from others mistakes is better than making them yourself, so here is the wisdom I learned. Either restore razors on a carpeted surface, or get yourself a magnetic jig. because when those bad boys hit concrete, you can pretty much kiss them goodbye.

Originally Posted by Ditch Doc

I agree. I have restored 8 razors so far, and have 10 or so waiting. So far, I have ruined 2. Both times I learned a valuable lesson. Learning from others mistakes is better than making them yourself, so here is the wisdom I learned. Either restore razors on a carpeted surface, or get yourself a magnetic jig. because when those bad boys hit concrete, you can pretty much kiss them goodbye.

I know it's mean spirited, but your post made me laugh out loud. Does that make me a bad person? Probably.

I just hope they weren't family treasures, or too terribly expensive.

Forgive me for answering the off topic post with yet another.
No, I bought about 20 or so blades for restoring all at once. Paid about 9 bucks each for them if you average it out. I have no idea what they cost each because I bought so many at once. Thanks to the nice people on this forum, I put a plea out for blades, and several people delivered big time. I ended up with stacks of the things. It's slow going because I don't start a new one until the last one is fully in the shaving rotation. I don't feel at all bad about destroying the blades, because I am bringing so many more back to life. Accidents happen, you know?

I am with Bart on this one. I have only used the breadknifing technique in extreme cases but I have used it and successfully set a bevel and got to shave ready on a half dozen blades. The traditional way is fine and I have honed chips out that way as well but on a severely chipped edge you have to put the time in one way or the other. Sort of pay me now or pay me later but one way or the other. One thing I will say is if you breadknife a razor you better know how to set a bevel and have the right hones for the job.

I have breadknifed a total of one razor, a Goldedge that had an impressively massive what the hell was he thinking type of frown. I considered it to be the only proper way to make the razor even remotely serviceable. It worked but it took a lot of time and I ended up with a useable but significantly narrower blade. Of course the bevel setting took a long time, and I do not think that breadknifing should be used except for extreme circumstances, but I do not agree that it leads to the removal of excess material. As soon as you lay the razor back to the normal honing position, metal removal commences on both the spine and the newly forming bevel. The last area to commence metal removal is the very apex of the bevel, aka, the edge. The bevel is set when the apex touches the hone. For that reason, I don't believe that breadknifing done properly is responsible for the removal of any excess metal.

I still have not read one valid point contra.

It's not traditional? I wouldn't bet my money on that. I remember Chris L talking about an old coticule he bought that had a groove running at the side, from where the previous owner used to run his edges in a breadknifing motion. I can imagine a home honer, or even a barber, getting a chip in the edge or developing a frown over prolonged time. I can imagine that person bringing his blade to a qualified razor sharpener to restore it in good condition. I wonder what that qualified razor sharpener would have done. Send the razor to the factory for a regrind? Get a straight (or a nice smiling) apex on it and recreate the bevel? (Thanks for the "apex" word, Utopian)

It removes more metal than necessary? When used with insight, it clearly does not.

True, it does not solve spine problems, but it does not claim that either.
Honing with tape on the spine does not solve spine problems either. I suspect that honing with tape is not very traditional. Let's rule it out.

The only thing that goes against it, is that it, from all things newbies might try without properly understanding what they are doing, is the most counterproductive.

BTW, I feel this thread should be moved to the advanced honing section.

Bart.